Dia on 21/8/2013 at 14:08
Quote Posted by Brethren
That's Fett - he's emotional, and he's vested in this community. He created T2X for crying out loud, so I think he's entitled. He's upset because the people designing New Thief obviously don't care that much about maintaining the legacy of the original games. Most people here feel the same way.
And really, who cares if it makes us look bad or is embarrassing? EM has demonstrated that they don't care what we think anyway. They're never going to listen to the community whether we're crazed lunatics or perfectly sane and professional commentators. They're interested in one thing - selling as many copies of New Thief as possible.
And...I can't speak for anyone else here, but...I'd much rather listen to Fett rant and rave than listen to someone repeatedly tell me to:
1. Calm down
2. Stop overreacting
3. Tell me "it's just a game"
4. Stop running around with my hands up in the air/like Chicken Little.
5. Stop screaming bloody murder
Etc Etc, Ad Nauseum. Who needs that kind of condescending BS?
Couldn't have said it better myself, Brethren. I'm long past giving a flying rat's ass what EM and/or its Thief forum mods/admins/members think of us. We were here long before EM even had a Thief forum and we'll be here long after EM's Thief forum has faded into oblivion.
Quote Posted by SneakyJack
I had a long post typed out about your entire quote but really all that was needed were these two sentences to sum up what could be the main reason why the developers aren't listening regardless. Well, other than the fact that they've gone so far as to tell us in this very thread that they are listening and they're giving the feedback directly to the team after they remove all of the insane and nonconstructive nonsense.
I can't believe that you really believe that horsecrap. EM
isn't listening because they've already decided on the development of T4; they're going to do it
their way and any concessions they claim they're making to fans of the original Thief games are just smoke and mirrors meant to placate us if not just outright shut us up. EM
didn't listen to us from the very beginning, back when they allegedly sought our input all those years ago - and that's when we were all behaving in an oh-so supportive, cooperative, and friendly manner. You see how far that got us. Afaic, EM is using the sometimes vehement protests over their development of T4 (by those of us here at TTLG) as an excuse and a shield. Unfortunately, that weak argument doesn't hold water considering the good relations we shared with them initially; surely you remember - back when we really believed they valued our input? Turns out they really didn't and still don't, so don't you dare blame EM's 'sudden' deaf ear on any forum members here. EM had its collective minds made up regarding the development of T4 long before we started protesting what they're doing to the game.
Kisses, ZB.
b1skit on 21/8/2013 at 14:56
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
From memory, here's how I remember it working. The movement listed is in conjunction with a button press. Not all of these are mapped to the X button on the PS4 controller, but it's been two months and I'm having trouble remembering which are mapped to X, Square, or Circle.
Moving in a direction and pressing button = swooping in direction Garrett is moving. Can change direction mid swoop to bend around corners.
Looking at a ledge = Mantle ledge
Looking or running at gap = Jump the gap
Look down at ledge = Drop from ledge
Looking or running at a railing = Vault over railing quickly
Running at low surface (crate/table/etcetera) = Slide over quickly
Look at rope = Jump onto rope. From there you can jump off, be it into the air, a ledge, or onto another rope.
Look at corner = Enter peak. From there you can stand/crouch, lean out further, or swap to the opposite corner if one is near (IE. if you're peaking around a pillar.)
Can you jump to your death? - Yes
Is it possible to wander off ledges? - I did a few times in the bridge burning sequence
Did you ever swoop when you meant to mantle or vice versa? - No
Could you mantle only in predetermined spots? - Anywhere I felt I could mantle, I could mantle.
Yep, good summary. Thanks MT.
Quote Posted by TriangleTooth
Unfortunately, this does mean jumping on the spot to deliberately draw a guard is out. (this was useful as you'd run away immediately after while the guard would leave his post).
Garrett can throw bottles or glasses (limited amounts that he can find and keep in his inventory) or use blunt arrows to get peoples attention. I'm pretty sure you'll find examples (
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxH-zb1ocwgCemBRcEVR479UAImuAQcDx) somewhere in here. If you think of it, share a link and time back here for any other curious folks?
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
If it's never or hardly ever a problem (and when was anything perfect?) then it's not a big deal; you're getting your knickers in a twist over not much.
Ergo if it is a big deal then you must want to jump out of context a lot - ie bunny hopping.
But you don't want to bunny-hop, so were back to it not being a big problem and you can turn down the frothing.
You're right Jay. It's never been a problem for me or anybody else I've spoken to who has played the game - it really isn't an issue.
Quote Posted by Springheel
I can't figure out why we haven't had a post like this from Adam
This is actually exactly why we hold community events and invited people to E3 to(
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138032) play the game. As the CM for 3 major franchises right now + the EM studio, it would be an irresponsible and ultimately futile use of my time to try and field every question from the community 1 by 1 - it's an impossible task. Instead, my role is to enable the community to inform themselves - hence why we created (
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138032) this thread for example. The invitation still stands, each and every one of you are welcome to pitch your questions to our community members who've played the game - they really do know their stuff and they'd love to talk Thief with you :)
Quote Posted by Master Taffer 512
Again, if you point the swoop away from the ledge, you'll swoop. If you're looking at the ledge and standing still/moving towards it, you'll climb it.
Looking at the ledge, not looking at the wall below the ledge. Combine that with the fact you have to have Garrett within reach of the ledge.
Yep, correct. It's very simple - it feels natural because it's much like your direction and movements would be in real life.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
What if I want to swoop sideways, like an idiot?
SE, we're trying to help. I know you're a reasonable chap and a lot of people hold a lot of respect for you, so can I ask you to do me a favor and try and keep it a bit more civil? PM me and we can talk it out if you want :)
You can swoop in any direction you'd like - forwards, backwards, side to side. You can even rotate while you're swooping, mid swoop. It's very free an natural feeling. I've never once swooped instead of climbed, or vice versa - I never actually even needed to pay any special attention to it.
Quote Posted by Dia
I'm long past giving a flying rat's ass what EM and/or its Thief forum mods/admins/members think of us.
Sadly, this has been made clear to everybody ad nauseam... But from what I've seen, thankfully this certainly isn't the case for everybody around here. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but they're your sour grapes to enjoy if you want. But since you still choose to spend much of your time browsing and posting around here - in a forum dedicated to a game, company and community you clearly can't stand - thanks! :thumb:
nickie on 21/8/2013 at 15:08
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
There's probably something to be said for developing game engines and in game systems that fail gracefully when the player pushes at the boundaries - vs engines and systems that fail miserably and need invisible walls and other arbitrary constraints to keep us locked up in the play pen.
I take your point (I hope) and tend to agree but pushing boundaries and trying to break a mission is something I do when I'm beta testing, not when I'm playing.
jay pettitt on 21/8/2013 at 15:09
I never knew Dia couldn't stand Looking Glass Studios.
skacky on 21/8/2013 at 15:15
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
I never knew Dia couldn't stand Looking Glass Studios.
Touché. So, TTLG is now about Eidos Montreal? Good to know.
Renault on 21/8/2013 at 15:16
I took it that way at first too, but he's just referring to this forum.
@b1skit - Just being honest here, but I find some of your comments unnecessarily smug, condescending, and/or sarcastic. I'd expect that from regular TTLG folks, but not the EM CM.
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 15:24
I'm not the one who started with the bitching b1skit. You can thank Master Taffer and his very, very important school work for that.
My point was - it appears you could end up looking at something and wanting to swoop but doing something else instead by mistake.
This is a failing in the control system IMHO.
Example - I'm hidden behind a box and can only just see over the top. I hear footsteps and wait, in the dark. I realise a guard is coming and his patrol (which I had observed) mean I will get caught.
Suddenly the top of his head appears over the edge of the crate and I need to swoop back into a deeper shadow.
But before I do that I need to look away from the edge. And I need to know that I'm going to look somewhere that isn't also a contextual trigger.
This is silly.
Of course I have to explain this in detail. Perhaps Master Taffer should finish his homework before further commenting. Hopefully it's English comprehension or logic 101.
Master Taffer 512 on 21/8/2013 at 15:26
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Hopefully it's English comprehension or logic 101.
Right back 'atcha, slick. Might want to get down your directions, first. Hint: Your left hand makes an "L" with your thumb.
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 15:29
Oh Jesus.
SneakyJack on 21/8/2013 at 15:40
Quote Posted by Brethren
I took it that way at first too, but he's just referring to
this forum.
@b1skit - Just being honest here, but I find some of your comments unnecessarily smug, condescending, and/or sarcastic. I'd expect that from regular TTLG folks, but not the EM CM.
So it's alright for TTLG moderators, who for all intents and purposes basically are community managers on a lower level for this place, to act like smug and condescending nutcases because nobody cares what 'we' look like - but when we're served up some of our own medicine by people that are probably long past tired of reading that bullshit from us who have to read post after post after post of this stuff without any constructive comments they're totally out of line? It's not alright to hurl abuse from either side of the fence but at this point I would understand if they started catapulting some of our own nonsense back to us.
There are indie developers right now cancelling games that could have been good and could have sold really well and giving up altogether because of the way the gaming community acts like entitled children about everything. It's out of hand. EM isn't an indie but it's just an example of how stupid people are getting.
(
http://home.bt.com/entertainment/games/gamesnewspreviews/developer-cancels-game-following-online-abuse-11363818496813)
The guy in the link above may have been one of the few that was volatile enough of a personality to just say 'f*** it' and throw up his hands and quit - but I'd put money down on many developers feeling the same lately. Regardless of the quality of the game people are just getting ridiculous with how they feel they can treat other people about the most insignificant stuff. I know that you constantly whine about people telling you to calm down and that it's just a game Brethren but honestly at the end of the day.. it really is just a video game.
