Chade on 21/8/2013 at 00:34
SE, I had no idea what arguments you would bring up. I certainly didn't expect it to be a simple enumeration of a bunch of things I'd already briefly alluded to, followed by not understanding the point of comparing swooping to jumping over flat ground.
Why am I comparing swooping to jumping over flat ground? Because I'm comparing the behavior of thief 4 to the behavior of earlier titles. The behavior of thief 4 is different in different situations, so the comparison needs to change with the situation too.
Flat ground? Thief 4 = swoop, thief 1-3 = jump
Empty space? Thief 4 = new jump, thief 1-3=jump
Something to climb? Thief 4 = climb, thief 1-3 = mantle
Situations where what thief 4 doesn't line up with thief 1-3? Thief 4 = ? Thief 1-3 = ?
(This isn't the only comparison you want, either, you also want a comparison between use-cases, e.g. swoop to dash between shadows vs. sprinting between shadows ... but that's a lot more work, and it doesn't cover that 1% of the time when you're doing something truly unusual.)
I'm surprised you think my other posts are stupid too. Why haven't you been arguing with me? You don't hold back with anyone else.
Goldmoon Dawn on 21/8/2013 at 01:23
He is running out of people to pick on, thats why.
SneakyJack on 21/8/2013 at 04:14
Quote Posted by Brethren
he's entitled.
And really, who cares if it makes us look bad or is embarrassing?
I had a long post typed out about your entire quote but really all that was needed were these two sentences to sum up what could be the main reason why the developers aren't listening regardless. Well, other than the fact that they've gone so far as to tell us in this very thread that they are listening and they're giving the feedback directly to the team after they remove all of the insane and nonconstructive nonsense. If everything I put out there was met with childish backlash from a bunch of adults behaving as if they'd gone off their meds who act like they've got battered spouse syndrome over a computer game I'd probably ignore them too. The echo chamber of misery this place has become is just depressing.
Shinrazero on 21/8/2013 at 05:02
Quote Posted by Brethren
That's Fett - he's emotional, and he's vested in this community. He created T2X for crying out loud, so I think he's entitled. He's upset because the people designing New Thief obviously don't care that much about maintaining the legacy of the original games. Most people here feel the same way.
And really, who cares if it makes us look bad or is embarrassing? EM has demonstrated that they don't care what we think anyway. They're never going to listen to the community whether we're crazed lunatics or perfectly sane and professional commentators. They're interested in one thing - selling as many copies of New Thief as possible.
And...I can't speak for anyone else here, but...I'd much rather listen to Fett rant and rave than listen to someone repeatedly tell me to:
1. Calm down
2. Stop overreacting
3. Tell me "it's just a game"
4. Stop running around with my hands up in the air/like Chicken Little.
5. Stop screaming bloody murder
Etc Etc, Ad Nauseum. Who needs that kind of condescending BS?
Praise the builder.
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 09:00
Quote Posted by Chade
I'm surprised you think my other posts are stupid too. Why haven't you been arguing with me? You don't hold back with anyone else.
I don't think your other posts are stupid. I just don't agree with you on lots of things and seem to conflate stuff in an odd way, imho. As for "holding back" - there are a few people who are just ridiculous on here, as you well know, and they deserve everything they get.
So back to swoop and jump.
This is a case where I think you are comparing things in an odd and illogical way.
Quote:
Flat ground? Thief 4 = swoop, thief 1-3 = jump
Empty space? Thief 4 = new jump, thief 1-3=jump
Something to climb? Thief 4 = climb, thief 1-3 = mantle
This makes no sense, at all. You seem to be comparing the behaviour you'll get when using a specific button in a specific context, across the games. But why would you do this? You'll know in Thief 4 that you can swoop so you won't press the button on flat ground to jump. These movements have different purposes and the contextual binding of swoop or jump to a key is irrelevant to the jump button in Thief 1-3. This is like comparing the fire button in Metal Gear Solid to that in Metal Gear Solid 4. The configuration changed. So what?
Climb vs mantle? There is mantling in Thief 4. This comparison makes no sense.
"New" jump vs jump? We'll have to wait and see exactly how jumping is implemented. But what is "Empty space"? Do you mean gap you have to jump across. Another odd way of putting things.
So you see; it's not that I think your posts are stupid, it's that they are just a jumbled mess. At least frothcrew are coherent in their nonsense.
nickie on 21/8/2013 at 09:16
Really? I find Chade's posts a pleasure to read - and he does get his apostrophes right. ;)
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 10:26
Great.
In other news - at EM forums the mods
keep equating free jumping to bunny hopping. It's unreal and really doesn't bode well for the game. If they had a coherent reason, in-house I mean, they'd surely filter it down to the mods/community manager. But no, bunny hopping, that great evil must be stopped.
I posted this.
Quote:
Not understanding why people want freedom of movement is to misunderstand Thief gameplay.
This equating free jumping with bunny hopping isn't just misleading and a poor attempt at misdirection, it's also one of the most unintellectual points of discussion I've ever had the misfortune of encountering in gameplay discussion. And that reflects on the people who keep bringing it up.
Now I'm going to be told that this is insulting, I'll be threatened with an "infraction".
But this is the truth.
It's as if we're talking about how seatbelts increase driver safety in a crash and the counter argument is all about how you don't look cool with them on so you are actually not safer - it is totally nonsensical.
I wish they'd just explain exactly how the contextual movement works, properly.
Master Taffer 512 on 21/8/2013 at 10:47
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I wish they'd just explain exactly how the contextual movement works, properly.
I never equated it to bunny hopping. I did however state that the mantling system was comprehensive enough that I didn't personally find it to be an issue.
From memory, here's how I remember it working. The movement listed is in conjunction with a button press. Not all of these are mapped to the X button on the PS4 controller, but it's been two months and I'm having trouble remembering which are mapped to X, Square, or Circle.
Moving in a direction and pressing button = swooping in direction Garrett is moving. Can change direction mid swoop to bend around corners.
Looking at a ledge = Mantle ledge
Looking or running at gap = Jump the gap
Look down at ledge = Drop from ledge
Looking or running at a railing = Vault over railing quickly
Running at low surface (crate/table/etcetera) = Slide over quickly
Look at rope = Jump onto rope. From there you can jump off, be it into the air, a ledge, or onto another rope.
Look at corner = Enter peak. From there you can stand/crouch, lean out further, or swap to the opposite corner if one is near (IE. if you're peaking around a pillar.)
Can you jump to your death? - Yes
Is it possible to wander off ledges? - I did a few times in the bridge burning sequence
Did you ever swoop when you meant to mantle or vice versa? - No
Could you mantle only in predetermined spots? - Anywhere I felt I could mantle, I could mantle.
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 10:52
Meaty reply!
So you have to face/look at things to "activate" the contextual aspect?
So if:
I look at a ledge, gap, rope, etc but want to swoop I can't?
Quote:
Did you ever swoop when you meant to mantle or vice versa? - No
Given what you've said this should be entirely possible, no?
