Chade on 20/8/2013 at 23:14
Christ almighty, I've never complained to the moderators in the 13 years I've been posting here, and I certainly don't intend to start now. Just make your argument and back it up already. You might be surprised.
ZylonBane on 20/8/2013 at 23:14
Perhaps if we're lucky swooping won't be on option until Garrett picks up the Swoop Module in the second-to-last level.
demagogue on 20/8/2013 at 23:42
Fett is a trained professional in disgruntled grump. That's why he gets away with murder. It takes years of training.
Whether swoop & jump are close enough to my mind hinges on whether the use of one intuitively flows like the other and the same mechanic translates to both. The originals had inventory & world frob with the same key, and it was intuitive, the same mechanic, and you knew from the ui what you'd do. (I thought I read the ui in T4 signaled when you'd jump, so that'd be covered, though in a dumb way if it's a popup.)
Anyway, my intuition is that jump & swoop may flow similarly, but they're still different mechanics... Jumping is about access, swooping for evasion. But I couldn't say for sure how it feels without play testing.
For the record though, I'm not a fan of contextual controls and would rather have wysiwyg anyway. TDM added two new keys (for inv frob & mantling) and I was happier to have them. So that's my bias.
SubJeff on 20/8/2013 at 23:45
You have selected number 1.
Quote Posted by Chade
A jump over flat ground and a swoop aren't
that different (the biggest difference being that swoop is more powerful)
Quote Posted by Chade
Just make your argument and back it up already. You might be surprised.
Jumping over flat ground has the potential to - make noise on landing, avoid noise by jumping over a noisy section/from quiet to quiet section, jump you into a mantle or onto a rope or other suspended object, jump you over a damaging item, increase your visibility.
It does not decrease your visibility and it should not increase your speed if repeated.
Given it's potential it is a multifaceted ability and it you may fail in the proper execution of one of these things - it requires player skill of a certain level.
Swoop does the following - moves you fast, moves you silently, moves you with reduced visibility.
The only potential execution fail is swooping into plain sight. In this respect it shares the same fail potential as every other movement, including jumping over flat ground.
It requires minimal player skill and in fact makes sneaking much easier. Is it more powerful? In some ways yes, but given the potential that jumping has overall I'd disagree.
These two actions only share the most superficial of characteristics.
That you cannot see this tells us that you either do not think about what you post or are incapable of thinking about what you post. You may be under the influence of substances rather than actually being stupid but the lack of multiple spelling and grammar mistakes in your post leads me to believe there are no substances involved, externally sourced nor cerebral.
Finally; why are you even comparing jumping "over flat ground"? Why are you therefore not comparing swoop with walking or running over flat ground? The reason is that you are attempting to excuse EMs choices with a misleading and confusing example.
Your comparison was moronic. You know what that makes you.
Goldmoon Dawn on 21/8/2013 at 00:00
Subjective Effect, why are you always..........
Oh to Hell with it, get me some damn popcorn! :p
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 00:06
Why are you always following me around?
Get a life.
Chade on 21/8/2013 at 00:11
SE, if I thought I needed to, I would have gone into all that and a bit more, but I didn't think I needed to spend paragraphs spelling out the obvious.
I compare swoop with jumping over flat ground because that's the domain in which the super-duper-move-about button chooses to use swoop instead of jump.
Within that domain, most of the differences, most of which you note above (plus there are other differences like changing direction mid-swoop), boil down to "swoop is more powerful", which is what I wrote earlier.
And of course there are a whole heap of things that I didn't touch upon at all ... I'm just talking about the range of actions that are possible and the practical effect upon your ability to move through the game. At the end of the day, SE, if you expect me to cover every single issue in detail every single post I make, you're going to be disappointed. I don't have the time. None of us have the time!
I generally find that it is more accurate to assume that other people aren't complete idiots, unless you have a great deal of contrasting evidence at hand. A couple of short paragraphs are not sufficient evidence, unless you find my posting history similarly lacking, in which case the narcissist in me is quite curious and interested in finding out more (possibly via PM if other people prefer).
Goldmoon Dawn on 21/8/2013 at 00:12
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Why are you always following me around?
Get a life.
Get over yourself.
I read *everything* on this board and always have. Its just that you are the only one who keeps.... oh nevermind, get me some damn popcorn! :p
Vae on 21/8/2013 at 00:19
Unlike Jump, Swoop is a super-ability, which should have made optional like the super-ability Focus...yet, they have made it a core movement mechanic, so as to essentially superhumanize the protagonist and fundamentally alter gameplay with a much faster paced, unnaturally silent, non-THIEF-like experience.
SubJeff on 21/8/2013 at 00:24
Quote Posted by Chade
SE, if I thought I needed to, I would have gone into all that and a bit more, but I didn't think I needed to spend paragraphs spelling out the obvious.
If that's the case why did you ask me to elaborate when you already knew the answers?
Quote:
I compare swoop with jumping over flat ground because that's the domain in which the super-duper-move-about button chooses to use swoop instead of jump.
This is irrelevant. What real bearing does it have on anything?
Quote:
unless you find my posting history similarly lacking
I do.
