Anarchic Fox on 28/8/2021 at 14:26
Thinking about it more a day later, I'd call the development of both games equally tumultuous. Tom Hall was Doom's notable casualty, but then John Romero and others left Id after Quake. The difference is that Romero and crew made it all the way through Quake's development before bailing.
ZylonBane on 28/8/2021 at 17:56
Quote Posted by Anarchic Fox
Thinking about it more a day later, I'd call the development of both games equally tumultuous.
You can call it a chicken salad sandwich, but that won't make it true.
Tom Hall left Id after Doom because he wanted to make more story-oriented games.
After Quake finished development, over half of Id's developers quit because the work environment had become so toxic, as described (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUeu96TKQwU&t=796s) here.
So yeah no, not even remotely equivalent.
Anarchic Fox on 28/8/2021 at 21:36
Shoo.
Harvester on 28/8/2021 at 21:46
I've also read that Tom Hall was really an upbeat, cheerful guy who liked to make funny, colorful games (like Commander Keen) and that the dark tone and atmosphere of a game like Doom didn't really match his vision of the kind of games he was most interested in making. Especially after most of the planned story and interactivity were removed. But then again I know little more than what's in the Masters of Doom book and I don't even know how reliable that book is (but it sure was a rousing read).
EDIT: I do remember the reviews of Duke 3D and Quake in a gaming magazine I read at the time. They thought Quake was too dour and humorless and waxed lyrically about Duke 3D. They got a lot of letters debating the merits of both games, that was an interesting debate. Personally, at the time I preferred Duke 3D but over the years Quake has grown on me, I own both on GOG and would be interested in playing the enhanced version and the new Machine Games mission pack once it comes out for the GOG version. But still, Doom and Doom 2 remain my favorites.
Anarchic Fox on 28/8/2021 at 22:48
Tom Hall's design document (jokingly called the Doom Bible) was all but disregarded in the final work. I'd bail too if my work was treated with such disdain. I don't think Hall ever badmouthed the Id guys in interviews and such though, so I don't think there was animosity.
Quote Posted by Harvester
They got a lot of letters debating the merits of both games, that was an interesting debate.
And the debate continues to this day! :joke:
My attitude nowadays is that Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, Unreal and Serious Sam are all too different for one to be conclusively better than the others. Too bad Half Life came along and turned the entire genre into its imitators, for a decade or so; otherwise, AAA gaming could have explored a variety of styles.
Anarchic Fox on 29/8/2021 at 13:46
Oh, so it is. Thank you for the correction.
I apologize for my earlier disrespect. But when I conceded the point you grew even angrier. I judged it best to withdraw.
heywood on 30/8/2021 at 20:58
Quote Posted by Harvester
EDIT: I do remember the reviews of Duke 3D and Quake in a gaming magazine I read at the time. They thought Quake was too dour and humorless and waxed lyrically about Duke 3D. They got a lot of letters debating the merits of both games, that was an interesting debate. Personally, at the time I preferred Duke 3D but over the years Quake has grown on me, I own both on GOG and would be interested in playing the enhanced version and the new Machine Games mission pack once it comes out for the GOG version. But still, Doom and Doom 2 remain my favorites.
Quote Posted by Anarchic Fox
And the debate continues to this day! :joke:
My attitude nowadays is that Doom, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, Unreal and Serious Sam are all too different for one to be conclusively better than the others. Too bad Half Life came along and turned the entire genre into its imitators, for a decade or so; otherwise, AAA gaming could have explored a variety of styles.
The way I look at it, Duke 3D was Doom evolved. The Doom engine was essentially cloned, some new features and powerups were added, and it had online multiplayer through some pay service I forget. And obviously more effort was put into the level design. But it still looks and plays like a Doom game. Quake is different generation, with a different style of gameplay and different control scheme. I know they came out in the same year, but there's not much to compare beyond that, especially considering what Quake turned into afterward.
Anarchic Fox on 30/8/2021 at 23:58
Quote Posted by heywood
The way I look at it, Duke 3D was Doom evolved. The Doom engine was essentially cloned, some new features and powerups were added, and it had online multiplayer through some pay service I forget. And obviously more effort was put into the level design. But it still looks and plays like a Doom game. Quake is different generation, with a different style of gameplay and different control scheme. I know they came out in the same year, but there's not much to compare beyond that, especially considering what Quake turned into afterward.
The engines were similar, but the level designs were dissimilar. Duke Nukem 3D tried to make convincing locations (and then make those locations explode), including teleportation shenanigans to fake multiple floors. But level flow suffered as a result, often leaving you hunting for the next trigger, never a problem in Doom with its color-coded doors. (My personal preference is for Doom's levels, in fact.) Also, Duke Nukem 3D seemed to prioritize fun over balance, with enemies and weapons varying widely in effectiveness. They're more similar to each other than the others I mentioned, but still too dissimilar for me to feel justified in a direct comparison. You're right that it's a more apt comparison than Duke Nukem 3D versus Quake, though.
Jason Moyer on 31/8/2021 at 00:29
Fired up the remaster, turned on all the new graphical doohickeys aside from motion blur and texture smoothing, and it's the same old Quake. Which is a good thing. I was a bit worried the graphical stuff would veer off into DarkPlaces territory but all of the updates are tasteful and subtle, and I basically don't notice them when I'm in the flow of gibbing shit. Quake64 is interesting, although I don't think the soundtrack is working yet. The CRT filter is terrible and can be turned off in the console (set r_crtmode 0). I'm gonna play the OG campaigns again for awhile before diving into the new one (I've played the freeware Machinegames episode which is great if hard as balls at times). Seems like a nice update.