Kyloe on 6/7/2007 at 05:56
Rather than teaching respect, they should teach dignity. Show some dignity and earn respect from all sides in return.
Scots Taffer on 6/7/2007 at 05:59
Quote Posted by "That article Iggles posted"
Let's get one thing clear. This is the golden age - so far. There has never been a better time to be alive in Britain than today, no generation more blessed, never such opportunity for so many. And things are getting better all the time, horizons widening, education spreading, everyone living longer, healthier, safer lives.
That is utter, utter horseshit. I could launch into a considerably lengthy tirade as to why this is not the case and is at best an optimist's half-dim view of a very real world situation but really all I can do is throw a couple of bullet-points out:
- There is much useless education occurring in Britain today, many "graduates" are without meaningful employment but with the downside of debts that need to be cleared (there are a litany of fucked up reasons why this is so both pro- and con- mass education and the national state of employment)
- The generations being produced today face several scenarios, at either extreme they are the later generation of educated professionals in which case they face student loans, limited employment prospects, high taxes and unaffordable housing, or they are the product of an abused welfare system, raised to cheat and scam for all they are worth, understanding exactly how least to contribute to society and yet rape it for all its worth
- We have an advanced free healthcare system, this is true, it is also being simultaneously being loaded with some of the most ludicrous nonessential services imaginable (such as breast implants) and sooner or later will collapse under the weight of its own charity unless better management is applied
Cultural notions as simple as the colour of your skin (white isn't cool, you need to be tanned) have a massive impact upon the general population (i.e. most of the country, being the dumb people whom watch big brother and buy tabloids/glossy gossip rags) which have implications towards the long term health of the country, encouraging a possible increase in skin cancer for one country in the world least likely to ever have a problem with it. Also in the UK there is Scotland which - despite medical advice and the widespread education - boasts one of the highest rates of heart disease in the world, at least they're finally making moves to ban smoking across the country but that will probably still cost some people their livelihoods in the end (and I'm not talking about Big Tobacco here). And this is only to mention a very specific few, I could go on, and on, and on.
Having ipods, internet, degrees in hospitality and tourism and a massively consumerist culture is not a golden age for mankind, but rather people living healthily, caring about their fellow men, contributing meaningfully to the greater good of the world and so on are all a golden age that we will probably never see. A golden age? I can't think of a time more disillusioned and apathetic.
I'm not saying wallow in misery or crapulence, or trash genuinely good things, but at least have a better long term view about what's best for a country, culture and society in general.
Uncia on 6/7/2007 at 06:06
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
In other news, Britain desperately tries to prevent the
social decay that has been accelerating rapidly for the past twenty years with exercises in sheer fucking futility.
Also, the whippersnappers need to git off yer lawn, right?
Scots Taffer on 6/7/2007 at 06:07
Haha, I mean, come on. Of course my original comment was largely tongue in cheek, the "twenty years" figure plucked from my arse with particular aplomb, but as I have pointed out, I think we could hardly call this a golden age for humanity. In many ways we have advanced but I'd argue that in just as many ways we are stagnating in our own ignorance or actively in reverse.
SD on 6/7/2007 at 08:44
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
That is utter, utter horseshit.
If record numbers of people graduating higher education, government-funded cosmetic surgery and unprecedented demand for home ownership are your best examples of the social decay that has supposedly stricken this country, then you are in truly dire need of a history book.
Maybe then you can tell us what was so much greater about Britain (say) 100 years ago - perhaps it was the dense pollution, or the thousands of people dying from easily preventable diseases, or the millions living a hand-to-mouth existence? Maybe it was the fact that 95% of people could literally carry every possession they owned at the same time, or that 60 years old was considered a really good innings?
Needless to say, I am agreeing with Iggles (although he gets three demerits for linking to the witless Polly Toynbee). We really haven't ever had it so good.
Scots Taffer on 6/7/2007 at 08:50
Who said I was looking to contrast with Victorian Britain or anything like it? Who says that I was needing to look any further than really one generation or so before ours?
I personally thinking the late 70's and 80's were Britain's heyday for a professional (yes, a selfish perspective, but why not?) in nearly every respect. People who graduated with meaningful degrees could find gainful employment in not solely one densely overpopulated spot of the country, they could afford houses and to have children, the taxes weren't so ludicrously high to overcompensate for a belaboured welfare system, and the NHS while not stellar wasn't granting excessive luxuries.
If one seeks to use the unemployment statistics or the fall of industrialism as negatives I'd counter with the hidden unemployment statistics of today, the hilariously inflated numbers of "disabled" unemployed who do not get classically categorised as strictly unemployed, as well as the fact that there is still large pockets of unemployment as well as an emerging trend of large companies increasing redundancies as outsourcing begins to take it's toll, while I was back in Scotland I met 2 friends who were recently made redundant from big corporate giants like IBM and Mercer as they start to ship more and more work offshore. Expect to see the situation worsen before it improves.
Anyway, without meaning to get too into this as I don't care that strongly about the UK anymore, it seems to me that there's a real problem when the sons and daughters of people who have paid their taxes and own their homes and have contributed meaningfully to this society cannot afford houses, cannot find work except in the horrible arsehole of the nation that is London, and that they are being taxed to support an overburdened welfare system that does not support their education but does support the education of those not even smart enough to qualify by the standard methods.
Fingernail on 6/7/2007 at 09:25
Quote Posted by Scots_Taffer
late 70's and 80's
Meanwhile: strikes, 3 day weeks and Thatcher (let's assume more racism, sexism). Ok sure, I wasn't around then, and obviously I'm generalising, but my point is I'm sure that every era you care to choose has both positives and negatives.
At the moment, yes, it might seem like the yoof of today are particularly disrespectful, but on the other hand, it's hardly tabloid headline news when CHILD WINS MATHS PRIZE or KIDS PASS GCSEs as opposed to STAY AWAY FROM THOSE COUNCIL ESTATE KIDS, GRANDMA
And you never know, but it could just be the case that this sort of thing is being reported because, wait, there aren't any miner's strikes or riots or much civil unrest right now.
Chimpy Chompy on 6/7/2007 at 09:35
There are obviously some Not Great things here in the UK right now. Like: tax, abuse of welfare system, crazy house prices.
But, yeah, if TIME LORDS showed up and offered me a chance to live in the 70s, I don't think I'd jump at it.
Vasquez on 6/7/2007 at 09:36
Quote Posted by Fingernail
And you never know, but it could just be the case that this sort of thing is being reported because, wait, there aren't any miner's strikes or riots or much civil unrest right now.
A friend of mine is a teacher, and she says it's quite obvious on day-to-day basis that more and more kids are being raised by "curling parenting". Not nearly all, of course, but it's becoming a real problem in schools - not only teachers have a higher risk of burn out, but it's also preventing the good kids from getting the best possible education.
Fingernail on 6/7/2007 at 09:53
Quote Posted by Vasquez
A friend of mine is a teacher, and she says it's quite obvious on day-to-day basis that more and more kids are being raised by "curling parenting". Not nearly all, of course, but it's becoming a real problem in schools - not only teachers have a higher risk of burn out, but it's also preventing the good kids from getting the best possible education.
Yeah, both my parents are teachers. Where my Dad worked, he said behaviour was getting worse (although at the time my Mum also wondered if he wasn't simply getting a bit older and grouchier, it's probably a bit of both). On the other hand, at my Mum's school, she has no real trouble from the kids, but it is a voluntary-aided grammar school rather than the local comp.
I'm not saying there's no problem, it's just probably not as vast or widespread as a lot of people sit at home worrying or fuming about.
