Chuck on 14/1/2009 at 00:59
Anybody play the PS2 version? The controls are beyond awful, all the codes are auto-managed, and the areas were hacked into small spaces because of the tiny PS2 memory. Sure, the characters look better, but that's about it.
ilweran on 14/1/2009 at 12:35
Quote Posted by Chuck
Anybody play the PS2 version? The controls are beyond awful, all the codes are auto-managed, and the areas were hacked into small spaces because of the tiny PS2 memory. Sure, the characters look better, but that's about it.
I did :(
I don't know if it was just my lack of console skills or (more likely) due to the crapness of the Dualshock, but JC kept veering off to the right which led to an unfortunate amount of falling off ladders & dying. The levels were hacked to bits in stupid ways and were so small the sniper rifle was a bit pointless, and the skill system was also pointless if you had auto-aim on but the game was unplayable if you didn't :mad:
I also hated the cutscenes at the end, especially the Helios ending which reminds me of when you die in System Shock - 'As a cyborg, you will serve SHODAN well' - and freaked me out the first time I saw it.
On the plus side, it is Deus Ex, the opening cutscene was fine and it did help me discover the joys of knocking people out with the baton instead of using tranq darts or the sniper rifle on everyone.
inselaffe on 16/1/2009 at 15:57
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
But HDTP is onto a good thing with being so closed, it gives people less chance to complain! :D
If they don't want constructive feedback, yes. Ignoring the gunther doesn't look like gunther and other character models, the logo on the unatco helmet has been greatly changed from what I could see on the forums, so much so that it is a completely different colour and just looks "odd".
Their justification of this was that it looked "too communist" :erm:
And then there's that the person making said models makes them all in a strange unnatural way so that every character looks like they are made from plastic and wearing hideous amounts of make-up - yes including male ones.
Other character modellers are better but some of the models still look a bit odd.
Nameless Voice on 16/1/2009 at 16:38
No, I mean if they ever want to finish it.
Nothing's stopping you (or anyone else unhappy with the models) from making 'better' ones. The people who made those models are no longer working on the project, so they can't listen to your opinions anyway.
You'll have the option of whether or not to use the character models when you install it.
inselaffe on 16/1/2009 at 16:49
Yes I'm well aware of that.
I assumed they were just trying to update the models but hey whatever. Sadly I do not know how to model and if I couldn't do it to a standard I was happy with I wouldn't anyway.
But your point about that is pretty deflective - you are basically saying no one should provide any form of constructive criticism, instead they should just be told to "do a better job themselves".
Surely for a asset enhancement pack like this, the goal is to stick close to the original and also improve it, sticking the the game's design aesthetics.
For more than one person to create the same models is just a waste of resources too - others could spend their time better creating original content.
DDL on 16/1/2009 at 17:38
Quote Posted by Dan Knott
I assumed they were just trying to update the models but hey whatever.
No offense, but the original models were so basic that 'updating' them leaves a hell of a lot of space that needs to be filled with personal interpretation.
Seriously: JC Denton, Walton Simons, Gary Savage, Gordon Quick, Ford Schick, Jock, even Joseph fucking Manderly...all used the exact same model. Different textures, sure, but all GM_Trench.
With higher detail models it's impossible to make a base mesh so generic that it can be used by that many different characters, purely via texture shifts.
So it's tricky, see.
Nameless Voice on 17/1/2009 at 16:45
The point I was trying to make is that I like the models*, and I'm sure a lot of others do too. They're a big improvement over the originals.
So, should they throw out these models, which people like, and spend a long time making new models (delaying the entire project) to make ones closer to what you (and others) think they should look like? At the cost that the people who like the current HDTP models might not like these newer replacements?
I'm sure that the HDTP team would be willing to make minor modifications (mainly just texture work at this point, otherwise it would involve redoing all the animations) to the models if you can name something specific that's wrong with them and which could be easily fixed.
In case others don't know what we're talking about, two images from the HDTP characters. They're both still WIPs as far as I know, though, so take with a grain of salt:
(
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/5/4470/54026.jpg) Paul Denton | (
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/5/4470/54027.jpg) Walton Simons
* With the possible exception of that out-of-place 'window' in Anna Navarre's new outfit, though I guess I'd have to see how silly it looks ingame.
DDL's point is also very valid: it's hard to make a detailed update for a model that is so indistinct as to have no detail without having to put some of your own vision into it. I had that problem a few times when I was working on the Thief Enhancement Pack. The result? Some people made a fuss and hated my take on the models, while others liked them. If I had tried to remake them until everyone was happy, I'd probably never have released the thing.
Edit: I don't have side-by-side shots of HDTP handy, buy I do have some examples from my Thief EP to illustrate what I mean about vague objects: (
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/972/08202007032856ac1.jpg) Goblet | (
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9290/12082007011702by4.jpg) Flash bomb | (
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/980/05232007014941ub4.jpg) Lost City Tapestry
ZylonBane on 17/1/2009 at 18:25
Quote Posted by Nameless Voice
The point I was trying to make is that I like the models*
Even the updated Maggie Chow? :erg:
ZylonBane on 17/1/2009 at 21:38
I actually don't have any issue with the updated mesh. But Maggie Chow (retired actress, femme fatale, seductress of Dentons, etc.) is supposed to be an attractive woman. And the face they put on there is not that of an attractive woman. She looks more like the old lady at the Lucky Money who tries to rent you a girlfriend. A GIS for "hong kong actress" turns up all manner of superior source material.
