Master Villain on 12/6/2012 at 13:21
Just got back from seeing it. The bit where Shaw went into the wrecked lifeboat full of static and debris with a fucked up squid thing somewhere made me think of TTLG.
I enjoyed it, though it was a mess at times. Visually, great. Plot, confused jumble of things to look cool or freaky. Me, happy enough.
Hologram of engineers = Space ghosts.
Geologist comes back = Space zombie.
Black oil makes new creatures out of old = Space X-Files (but they were ripping off Alien in the first place so I guess it's okay).
It did feel like there were a lot of elements shoved in there just to fit people's expectation of what happens in Alien films. The android is evil! There's a plan to infect someone with alien stuff! Someone has a horrible thing in them! Gory scene where it comes out!
That bit ended up with me laughing, at about the point she was being stapled together, so that didn't work out like they planned. I would have liked if they set up the autodoctor by having it used on someone for a general accident thing early in the film.
I guess the engineers seeded earth to make Alien hosts, since that's the only thing that makes sense. Even if that makes no sense.
It was great to be back in the creepy and dingy Alien universe. So I'd see a follow-up.
Sombras on 12/6/2012 at 13:40
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Not this again. It clearly states when they arrive that it is LV223. I've seen this error all over the place, and the supposed lack of continuity as a problem with the film when it's you people who didn't pay attention making a mistake. And I don't mean to be rude but anyone who misses this
wasn't paying attention.
I'll admit that I wasn't paying attention. I went into and left the movie assuming that they were on the same planet. The fact that the two stories were not on the same planet definitely adds to the depth of the overarching narrative. And yeah, you're being a little rude, but you're still right. :)
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
They clearly have a biotech facility and a linked "human" (more one this later) planet. Why? Well it looks like they are making Alien eggs, and in order to do it they need the set up; pluripotential goo (which is why it turns into different stuff) and hosts (humans) to go through the (many) cycles and end up with Alien eggs. This is why the Engineer is heading to Earth - it's his mission and was abandoned 200 years ago. We were never meant to get this technologically advanced. The reason he is in cryo is that he was never woken up and can't very well do so while he is asleep. The other Engineers bungled the mission and got infected/impregnated. This likely happened in the other pyramids and they all came to this one to escape.
See, this is all really
interesting, and I suspect (and think it would be really cool if) it's correct, but I don't feel like much about it is "clear". This takes me back to the beautiful simplicity of
Alien. The story unfolded in a very natural and compelling way. Even the mystery twist (Ash and his ulterior motives) made perfect sense. When you left the theater, you left having experienced a complete story that, if you really wanted, you could begin to support a satisfying backstory.
Prometheus seems to revel in tossing around as many hints at backstory as possible, and then muddies it up with poor character development, leaving the viewer to wonder WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON.
On the other hand, maybe all the frustrating hints were designed to make sci-fi nerds like us bitch and moan on fora like these and, in so doing, start building up interest in the next installment.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
With regards to the "why?" - there could be a couple of reasons. 1. That's just the plan; get the numbers up, get the eggs, PROFIT. 2. The initial attack on Earth was supposed to be about 2000 years ago. Given the exposition about faith and creators is this a hint at our failure to recognise our place in the universe - that around the time of Christ it became clear to them that spiritually we had failed to recognise and follow the true "faith"? They left clues after all...
So, they left the clues, and you think that humans were originally supposed to understand and accept at least some notion of their place in the Engineers' plans. I love this idea. The
problem is that such an important plot device should not get perhaps 60 seconds of film time. Again, poorly executed storytelling.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
David - on a mission from Weyland. Doesn't know what the goo will do an experiments on a crew member. How is this hard to get?
It's not hard "to get". It's just not very convincing. Collect a sample of something you know
nothing about and, after your first trip to the Engineer ship, have every reason to believe is exceedingly dangerous, and then deliberately infect one of the scientists who inspired the journey in the first place. Nope. Not buying it.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Shaw - doesn't know how she got infected, only that she has got rid of it. Why would she flip out, especially when doing that will stop her from getting to meet the Engineer and ask her questions.
Fair enough. But the scene in which Shaw stumbles on Weyland and his team preparing to leave for the Engineer ship was ludicrous. Why the hell would Weyland or any of his team, especially David, think it would be wise for Shaw to tag along considering what had just happened to her. I think the whole impregnation and removal sequence was rushed, poorly conceived, and unnecessary. (The only reason I can see for it is to plant a squid-hugger on Vickers' life boat for later use.)
For all of my complaints about the ragged storytelling in
Prometheus, I have to say that discussion is helping me to appreciate what the movie
attempted to do and look forward to any upcoming installments. Fans shouldn't have to work this hard to appreciate it, but I guess it's better than nothing!
Vivian on 12/6/2012 at 13:44
Spoiler tags, spoiler tags, or change the thread title
Scots Taffer on 13/6/2012 at 11:19
I'll keep this brief: Promethesucks.
Sombras on 13/6/2012 at 14:16
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
I'll keep this brief: Promethesucks.
:laff: Clear. Decisive. Hard to argue that you're wrong.
Yakoob on 13/6/2012 at 20:26
Just saw it and really liked it. My main beef was the faith/humanity angle was underused and seemed to be self-contradictory. The movie alludes to the question "does it matter why we were made?" and by avoiding to anwer it seems to hint that no, it doesn't, it's what we make of ourselves... until the end where Shaw tells david "yes it does matter but you wouldn't understand cause ur a dumb robot DERP." Just felt like a cheap shot there.
I don't get the beef with the plot-holes, though, I thought everything was hinted at, could be logically deduced or, flat out didn't matter for the overall story. SPOILERS GALORE:
Quote Posted by Neb
Shaw gets an abortion after violently knocking out two colleagues, and no one is waiting for her outside the room, or interrupts her mid operation, or even gives it more than a brief mention when she strolls back with a large, stitched up incision. Well I hardly believe they all just sat on their ass as Shaws operation went on. David and the rest of the crew already knew she was on the loose and I bet activating the machine would have notified Vicks. My logical assumption was that, by the time she got to the room, all of them were already aware of what happened to her so no need to ask questions. The old dude was too preoccupied with seeing the creators to deal with what happened then, but she was still their top scientist and valuable assets. David and Vicks, being the old dude's lackeys, had to follow suit. I also had a feeling none of them knew it was David who was behind the infection, hence why there was no conflict of interest between any of them.
Quote:
After the engineer ship takes off, Shaw manages to convince the captain to sacrifice himself on a whim. This is the guy who moped around with a tartan towel around himself for most of the beginning, nonchalantly commenting on radar blips to stranded crew mates. His copilots readily join him in death without a second thought. It's all a clumsy manoeuvre to get Shaw and David alone, having to cooperate at the end. It's interesting, but it really wasn't worth what we had to go through to get there.Agreed, they were way too quick to trust her on that.
Quote Posted by Sombras
--The Alien/weapon/monster/infection/Other: ... Like the rest of the plot, this new version is a mess. You never quite know where the creature's growth starts and where it's going. The ONLY thing that I can think of to explain the difference in alien types/development between
Prometheus and the
Alien sequence is that maybe, just maybe, the creaturs encountered in
Prometheus are another
version of the bio-weapon featured in
Alien?
Honestly - you are thinking too much. Evolution is randomness. Evolution never stops. There is no start and stop, except what normally takes thousands of years, is vastly sped up via the alien cycle of infect -> evolve -> infect -> evolve -> etc. drawing some genetic material from each new host, perfecting itself via survival-of-the-fittest.
A little centipede will go around eating bunch of leaves, then make a caccoon, and suddenly grow wings, then die after a day. It doesn't make any sense either when you think about it, but you don't scream "plot holes!" at mother nature.
Quote:
-David: I really liked his character. Fassbender plays him well, and the robot's quest for meaning and acceptance by his father-figure could have been so much more compelling. David's surriptitous collection of biological samples made little sense, and his deliberate infection of Carlie even less. Bad, bad script writing here. His character can be redeemed in the next movie.
Err, this is basically replay for Alien plot. Clearly david has a hidden agenda, same as the droid in Alien - bring back the alien. He studies them and finds out how - infect Holloway so he can impregnate Shaw and freeze her until they are back, with the alien inside. It is a bit convoluted (he could have just brought back the "eggs" home) but it does make sense and fits the character.
Quote:
The Engineers and their Ship: Really cool that their elephantine heads turned out to be helmets! Totally stupid that they ended up being 100% (not 99.98%) genetically identical to us. So, how would that explain them being so goddamn different from us?
Aren't pigs also like 99% genetically similar to us?
Quote:
What happened on their ship is frustratingly vague, and I can't understand why in some past disaster they fled
into the room containing so many weapons cannisters. If they were fleeing an alien creature/contagion, why run into a chamber full of them?
Except they were sealed and locked, and you are running away from horrible beasts that can tear you to seconds - a sealed room with reinforced doors is your best bet.
Quote:
And, why would the Engineer pilot wake up, kick some ass, and just take off for Earth with his ship compromised (i.e., humans and aliens running around)?
Cause it was his mission from the get go, to fly to earth and wipe it? Also, he kills half the crew, and Shaw gets out of the ship - the threat is contained.
Quote:
How did the Engineer pilot know that Shaw was still alive after his ship is brought down?
Gee a giant human spaceship just crashed into you, and there is an escape pod nearby, quite clearly someone of these human fuckers are still alive. And I don't know about you, but if someone crashed their spaceship into my spaceship, I would be pretty pissed.
Quote:
Oh, and all the archeological evidence on Earth pointing (literally) to the Engineers? Interesting, but its role in the film served only as a catalyst to get to the Engineers' base. I don't find that part convincing, and I have trouble understanding why humans would be invited to go
there, when the Engineers' intentions were to return
here.
Well it was pretty much just a McGuffin, and I do agree it could have been explained better but honestly, it doesn't matter. I took it wasn't an invitation - it was a warning. That's why Shaw exclaims "we were so wrong."
Basically the mural is saying: "You see that planet there? Yea? well once you develop space tech, go there and stop the big blue dudes from wiping humanity, kthx"
Quote:
Final scene: Totally unnecessary, gratuitous, un-scary, pandering, etc. I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid.
Agree. If the Engineer's stomach burst with an alien-shaped head and it just cut to black, I would've liked that much better. Otherwise it just felt gimmicky.
Quote Posted by Brethren
Strangely, the thing that bothered me most was the complete lack of common sense and protocol of the whole crew and mission overall of Prometheus.
Agree, that was what bugged me too - so all the crew agreed to fly billions of lightears into space and cryosleep for 2 years without even know WTF they were going or what they are expected to do there?? Whaat? But then again, a lot of WW2 draftees leaped to be the Airborne without knowing much about it for now other reason than MONEY.
And I do agree that the scene with the cobra was just... "this guy is the most retarded bio-scientist I've ever scene."
Quote:
As Sombras mentioned, there was no one person completely in charge (competent or not, we really needed a definitive Dallas or Gorman). It seemed like the whole movie, everyone had their own agenda and just did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, no organization or procedure anywhere.
You're billions of years away from earth with 10 other people none of which are soldiers. Chain-of-command doesn't exactly enforce itself in those circumstances. Altho I agree, they should have had some military/security force on board.
Quote:
What would Weyland need obstetrical forceps for?
Right, because operation rooms come ONLY equipped with the exact tools in the exact quantities needed because no unexpected emergencies ever arise.
Sulphur on 13/6/2012 at 21:02
Saw it. Impressed with the production values, but not the immense failure of imagination. For the first hour, we were wondering when the movie would start. And then, the second hour kicks off with the classic Alien scene where shit goes down; so now, you're anticipating this great, tense buildup for the duration, but then it... veers off, drops down an altogether different kind of rabbit hole.
So the problems are many.
One: who honestly gave a fuck about Charlie? Or the rest of the crew apart from the primary trio of Vickers, David, and Shaw? It's incredible how quickly Shaw gets over his death, and it's incredible how he willingly leads himself to immolation, and it's incredible that we're supposed to give a fuck about their relationship when the only meaningful dialogue between them is two lines about faith and a sex scene.
In Alien, while none of the other crew members got much screen time compared to Ripley, they weren't this stupid, or as horribly written. Prometheus has pyscho geologist guy and idiot biologist dudes ('THE AIR IS BREATHABLE! SCREW SCIENTIST CRED -- IMMA TAKE MAH HELMET OFF CUZ FUCK YOU!', and, 'Oh, hi there pretty snuggly alien pooh, come here so I can pet you on your spindly vagina head') and Captain Bland (a poorly utilised Idris Elba - this is Stringer Bell, for heaven's sake) and his two cohorts who suddenly decide to heroically flame out by smacking into the Engineer (whoops, don't we mean Space Jockey?) ship. All that was missing was the Ride of the Valkyries in the background.
Two: Mr. Weyland. His modus operandi is immortality? That's what drove the entire mission? The most cliched trope in the history of literature? Even cliches can be expanded upon and fleshed out in a sufficiently satisfying manner, but there was absolutely no insight into this character at all, apart from the fact that he's the stereotypical wisened hard-ass old prick with a stick up his ass and a penchant for fucking people over around him cuz that's the way he rolls. Missed fucking opportunity. At least give people a reason to like or hate the dude, damn it. Even Lance Henriksen's turn as Weyland in Alien 3 carried more depth in the few lines he was given.
Three: Alien was alien. Unfamiliar and nightmarish thanks to Giger's work, which called up those dark half-formed things lurking in the crevices of your subconscious, and uncoiled them across the screen in worrisome detail. Prometheus has the curse of over-familiarity - ribbed metal walls covered in organic muck only takes you so far in terms of set design - and zero inspiration when it comes to the CG creatures (A... giant squid? A slender stalk topped by a vagina with teeth?). It was a mistake not to have brought Giger back on board, at least for the set design if nothing else. Sure, it's exploring the origins of humanity, so there have to be some similarities, but most of the creature/character design was underwhelming. The biggest disappointment for me in this regard, IMO, was making the Space Jockey exoskeleton a helmet that cracked upon to reveal a more or less human face. 'OMG they look exactly like us!' Oh, for fuck's sake. I hate it when sci-fi displays such an obvious lack of imagination. It would have been immensely more creepy if the Engineers looked like they did in Alien but still shared a major part of our DNA.
But there are good bits! I was mildly intrigued by the questions it raised, though. David's whole psychotic bent on children killing their parents, and the drive to answer the question, 'Why!?' is the stuff classic sci-fi is made of. To be honest, while the first hour drags a bit, I really do think they could have gotten more mileage from the script by making it a more character driven piece.
The Alchemist on 13/6/2012 at 23:57
Ok I'm tired of tippy-toeing through spoilers. Make up your fucking mind TTLG. DO I GO SEE IT OR NOT?
Scots Taffer on 14/6/2012 at 00:19
Random thoughts:
David was kind of cool before he went down the predestined evil android route.
The visuals were pretty spectacular for the first 30-45 but then everything got very flat in a big hurry.
"Not an alien prequel" but prepossessed with table setting every fucking piece for the first movie.
Who gives a rats about Vickers? Daddy moment has no weight and was totally obvious. Plus LOL death.
The crew is a mash of every sex and culture but the engineers are identical pod people.
On that note, only about 6 crew members too many.
Shit just happens for no real reason (why'd that infected guy come back to kill people?) and people act seriously retarded (taking off helmets, touching goo, petting alien cobras).
The last half hour was such a noisy and jumbled mess I was just glad to leave.
The surgery sequence was unintentionally hilarious.
