Ostriig on 9/10/2008 at 18:59
And "curious" turns to "disturbed" considering that the protagonist appears to be strictly male. :erm:
rachel on 9/10/2008 at 20:02
Quote Posted by Ostriig
The Ultimate Warrior box presents four augs, of which the following is relevant (bold for emphasis):
Multi-KillWhen faced with multiple opponents, Jensen can unleash a combo of devastating martial arts moves,
with the action switching to third-person.I was about to post something about how horrible this idea is, when I recalled I actually liked the way third-person perspective was implemented in
Jedi Outcast/Academy, where typing combos would execute a flamboyant lightsaber maneuver. I understand these games are not as revered as the first
Jedi Knight, especially
JK Academy, but imho they're definitely memorable for mixing both POV without fucking up the entire experience.
So I'd be willing to let them give it a try.*
I'm still dead against auto-heal however, that's a terrible concept for Deus Ex. Make it an aug, and if you really care, make it a switchable one.
*like they care about my permission :p
The_Raven on 9/10/2008 at 20:19
Quote Posted by Ostriig
And "curious" turns to "disturbed" considering that the protagonist appears to be strictly male.
Deus Ex: Tranny Delight. :p
Papy on 9/10/2008 at 20:25
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
when the game is just starting production, is the ABSOLUTE BEST POSSIBLE TIME to bitch and moan as loudly as possible
I agree with you, unfortunately I'm very pessimistic about the whole issue, so I also agree with BlackCapedManX (my God... I'm a Yes man). When I read this : "
the designers didn’t want people exploring levels just for health packs or having to reload to an old save game because they messed up a scenario and couldn’t advance. I know some people actually liked the exact scenario I just described but this is a decision the team made", it looks to me they are already fully aware of what we think. It's just that "we" is obviously not their target audience, so they simply don't care.
Of course, if we can convince their target audience, which is the horde of Halo fan, that Halo was a shitty game (BTW I never played Halo, I just assume that what other people here are saying is true), then maybe we could make them change their mind. The enemy is not really the devs, they will do whatever the market wants.
So people of TTLG, let's travel far away and preach to the world. (Call me Jesus)
The_Raven on 9/10/2008 at 20:28
Yes, apparently the fun part of games isn't exploring your environment and learning how to make the most of it anymore.
Papy, you aren't missing much. Halo was essentially you running head first into battle, getting a shit load of damage, running away, and repeating the whole thing for the entire game. It wasn't the worst thing in the world the first time, but it was so incredibly boring that my attempt at a second run through of the game didn't last past the opening sections. The sad thing is that this reminds me of a blog post or something from Bungie when they were working on Halo 2. The whole thing was about their time with a ex-special forces guy who was consulting for them on battle tactics, firearms, etc... The major part was how it seemed the people at Bungie were completely floored by the fact that their consultant mentioned that they almost never go backtrack for cover unless a full blown retreat is ordered. I just couldn't get over the fact that it seemed that the Bungie people thought their gameplay elements were realistic, and that that they never considered that real soldiers are always advancing towards their goal unless they're told not to.
rachel on 9/10/2008 at 20:33
To be fair, Halo is a decent game. It's the fanboys who are insufferable, it's clearly not the pinnacle of all things gaming they think it is. (Obviously that's Deus Ex :p) Seriously though, it's just a fun shooter.
(Kind of sucks on PC though, it's got much better handling on its native Xbox)
Your point still stands that these fanboys are the target demographic, and their standards are pretty low.
René on 9/10/2008 at 20:43
I'm not a designer or producer but I do sit near them and talk to them almost every day. Since the news broke last Saturday, I've been gathering information and compiling reports which I've been distributing so that everyone knows what the community is saying.
I understand the pessimism in terms of Marketing. I've been burned in the past too. All I can say is that Eidos Montréal has hired a gamer (me) in this community role. I bought the original Deus Ex back in the day as well as another trilogy of games which shall remain nameless, and I have said boxes at my desk right now.
So while I'm not responsible for design decisions, I am a conduit of information between the dev team and the community, and not just the official site, but sites like TTLG. As one example, once we get our dev blog up we'll do community Q&A's with the dev team either through emailed messages or maybe even live IRC.
The harsh criticism is okay. I'll just keep trying to inform the dev team and community about each other's issues as we move forward in development. I'll try to check this forum often but if I disappear for a few days and you need to send me a message, just do so through a PM on the official forum and I'll respond asap.
René
The_Raven on 9/10/2008 at 20:44
Quote Posted by raph
It's the fanboys who are insufferable, it's clearly not the pinnacle of all things gaming they think it is.
This happens a lot with things that are heavily marketed. It is really funny that it seems to work. I just overheard a conversation here at school today about how some guy wanted to see Eagle Eye because it was a Steven Spielberg movie. :rolleyes:
ZylonBane on 9/10/2008 at 21:32
Quote Posted by Papy
Of course, if we can convince their target audience, which is the horde of Halo fan, that Halo was a shitty game (BTW I never played Halo, I just assume that what other people here are saying is true), then maybe we could make them change their mind. The enemy is not really the devs, they will do whatever the market wants.
This touches on the central problem, the one that tripped up Invisible War and Bioshock-- developers who become convinced that they can make a fundamentally niche game design appeal to the mass market if they just make it "accessible" enough.
It's a terminally flawed approach. To put the problem in foodie terms, it's like trying to make foie gras appealing to Joe Sixpack. You either end up with liver and ketchup (Invisible War), or.... a hamburger (Bioshock). The former represents a doomed attempt to bolt on mainstream appeal that ends up disgusting everyone, and the latter represents giving up and just giving the mass market what it wants.
Quote Posted by René
I'm not a designer or producer but I do sit near them and talk to them almost every day. Since the news broke last Saturday, I've been gathering information and compiling reports which I've been distributing so that everyone knows what the community is saying.
It's encouraging to have you here. You really, REALLY need to impress on your powers that be that this tight-lipped approach to PR isn't doing the game any favors. People (myself included) are running around with worst-case-scenario interpretations of extraordinarily vague information. For example, if the dev team hasn't decided yet how the auto-heal will work, they need to say so. And if they've decided that it will work just like Halo... well, then they need to be fired.
The_Raven on 9/10/2008 at 22:09
There's a lot of truth to that, ZylonBane. While I, for the most part, believe that good design can make a niche game more accessible, I'm not too sure if that means it will strike a chord with the mass market. It may be theoretically possible to make a niche title a bestseller, but it would take an incredible amount of skill and work to pull off. Hell, it is probably borderline impossible.
