mothra on 5/10/2008 at 13:50
it's a bad post form the eidos forum, using the gow/cod comparison but somehow reflects my initial thoughts about those dx3 reveals:
Quote:
well, i have to say, I'm really not interested in the art style and if/how they changed this and that....
what I hear about the gamemechanics looks a lot like
gears of war/call of duty/metal gear
and those are games I generally don't like except maybe MG but it just don't fit into my deus ex universe. for me deus ex was / and is/was an adventure game with npc interaction and LESS a shooter. the inventory/stats/xp and for today's standard "clunky" weapon handling is much more appealing to me than hand-2-hand combat and moddable weapons and autoheal. I can play FEAR if I wanna jumpkick some replicas. I think just like Fallout3 it will be an interesting game, ultimately it will be decides by its STORY, but just not worthy of carrying the DeusEx / Fallout tag.
well, companies don't care, they cash in on the brand name and many younger gamers that just "heard" of it but never played it 'cause the graphics are so bad, those won't mind and pray at their altar of action.
maybe there will be a cross-over level where you meet the bionic commando.
you could bungee-jump and he could arm-swing.
I'm out.
of course I'm gonna change my opinion over time once we see gameplay videos, not some shots and cgi-trailers.
Manwe on 5/10/2008 at 14:34
Oh god I'm afraid this "cover system" is gonna be similar to what we had in rainbow six vegas. If that's the case there's no way I'm buying this game. Such a system is completely irrelevant on pc when we have a crouch key and lean keys. I want to be in control of my character goddammit !!! I don't want the game to play itself for me. Having a magical context sensitive button that does everything for me is just retarded. I mean it works well on consoles since there are not enough buttons on a gamepad for leaning/peeking and crouching but not on pc (not bashing consoles here, just saying the cover system works better on consoles, while leaning/crouching works better on pc). Anyway it's probably too early to speculate on how the final game will be, but so far I really don't like what I've read. I definitely won't get my hopes up for this one.
ZylonBane on 5/10/2008 at 16:28
The AI are definitely aware of light levels. I was just experimenting with a couple of NSF on the Liberty Island map (the ones off to the right from the dock, who talk about Gunther's augmentations). Normally, you can sneak right by them. But if you turn your light aug on, they detect you much earlier. Also, if you stand far away, turn on the light aug, and shine it toward them, they'll notice it and turn to face you. Better turn it off quick, or they'll start shooting!
Kalit on 5/10/2008 at 16:41
Am I the only one who hates this fad of FPS games going into 3rd person mode for cover (or in this case stealth)? It's called First Person for a reason. That and the auto-heal thing are the things that I don't know if I'll be able to overlook.
Twist on 5/10/2008 at 17:02
From clarifications from Eidos, the brief bits of third-person work just like they do in Chronicles of Riddick. Like someone said on the DX3 forum, I'd prefer uninterrupted first-person, but Riddick worked pretty well and Deus Ex already cuts to third-person quite a bit for dialogue, so the additional third person bits may not feel like a radical change.
Then again, it may be really immersion-breaking. We really can't tell at this point.
I'm still not convinced about the lighting issue. I really don't mean to come off as stubborn on this matter because I'm honestly not very sure of myself.
But in my own experimenting, even situations like what ZylonBane and Malleus described look and feel more about cone-of-view and activity level (turning on the light aug creates an outward activity alert detectable by the AI, just like shooting a gun).
I'm really not sure, but I still haven't seen anything that can't be explained by cone-of-view, activity-level... or crouching. Crouching seems to provide a stealth bonus, but it seems to work no matter the light level. So if you don't use any items or augs, crouch and stay still or slow and stay somewhat to the side or out of range of the AI's primary view cone, you can go undetected. Lighting doesn't appear relevant in the equation.
The developers clearly want you to feel that lighting is relevant (see the tutorial), but that's a matter of perception.
The best and only way we may be able to test this is to have someone create two small almost-identical levels where the only difference is the lighting level of a particular spot, and have both the AI and the player perform the exact same actions in each of the levels.
We also could have someone dig through the AI code and tell us if there is any kind of lighting-related alert triggers.
I know the tutorial tells you to stay out of the light, but they want you to think that so you find the environment more compelling and responsive to your actions. I don't think the mention of lighting in the tutorial indicates that the AI actually detects differences in lighting.
Again, I don't mean to be stubborn or belabor the point, I just honestly don't see lighting really being relevant in Deus Ex's AI triggers. Feel free to convince me otherwise. :erm:
ZylonBane on 5/10/2008 at 17:25
Quote Posted by Twist
But in my own experimenting, even situations like what ZylonBane and Malleus described look and feel more about cone-of-view and activity level (turning on the light aug creates an outward activity alert detectable by the AI, just like shooting a gun).
No. In one of the situations I described above, the AI will not react to an activated light aug unless you specifically point it at them.
majek on 5/10/2008 at 17:27
Well i'm pretty sure i hid in the dark areas on Libery island and NSF troopers moved past me and didn't react, when they should've seen if darkness didn't play a big role.
Anyway this auto changing perspective in stealh doesn't really appeal to me, but since i have no idea how they'll make it work, i won't judge it yet. But i'd still prefer it to be like in Thief:DS if is has to be ingame.
The healing is another concept i have to see in action first before i judge it. Sure the "realistic" damaging from DX was great but they healing was pure magic, since no matter how crippled you were you could always heal with any healing items, even junk (candy bars,...).
Jashin on 5/10/2008 at 17:32
Shanghai 2027 huh? :cool:
It all sounds not bad so far, just as long as the levels are big enough. I don't expect it to be anywhere close to DX in 2000, but it'll be more entertaining than the mill I reckon.
It's DX post-iw. Only place to go is up.
Twist on 5/10/2008 at 18:53
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
No. In one of the situations I described above, the AI will not react to an activated light aug unless you specifically point it at them.
What makes you certain the AI reacts in this case because of a light change in the environment or because they detected light in any way?
This looks to me like either the player pawn or the light aug object sends a trace at a vector which hits the AI.
When this trace hits the AI, the AI toggles a "Notice Player" variable.
I've coded with UnrealScript and this would be really easy to code into the light aug. It wouldn't be that different from coding a hitscan weapon, but instead of detecting and registering a bullet hit, you detect a trace hit which triggers a change in an AI-notices-player variable.
My main point is that this would have nothing to do with the AI detecting a light change in the environment but everything with you triggering the AI to notice you with a specific activity.
You might try this in a large, bright area. If you can remain a great distance from the AI, it probably won't notice you. But if you point the aug at the AI and it suddenly reacts -- even though the area is already bright -- then you triggered a change based on activity rather than light level.
Again, this is just a hypothesis. Maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*
ZylonBane on 5/10/2008 at 19:56
Good god, would you listen to yourself? "Oh, the AI aren't actually noticing your light, harumph harumph, they're just programmed to notice it."
Well no shit, Shemp.
