PotatoGuy on 2/2/2011 at 20:45
I'm all fine with everything that everybody said about everything but please, BA, don't go on the teacher_1 tour. :(
Thor on 2/2/2011 at 21:09
Not that I care about you enraged people here, but what is with all that moving to TDM thing? As a thief-themed platform it is technologically the most advanced. From a simple perspective it is the obvious choice. For short time anyway. But Rocksbourg is a long time kind of project. Won't Thief 4 be moddable? If it won't then someone could've blurted it out referencing to my previous comment. If it would be moddable though then something tells me it would be a more appropriate mission builder. Ok, ok, I'm a bit pissed at everyone motivating to migrate to TDM, but I do have a point there with the thief 4 deal, unless it was said that it won't be moddable.
New Horizon on 2/2/2011 at 21:18
Quote Posted by ManicMan
I feel (please notice that i am giving what is MY view, no-one else's and i don't like to lie and say 'i think everyone would agree' and stuff like that, cause I'm often one that doesn't agree with a person then they say that) that using a tailored engine can often give the best results.
If you don't have the source code then yes...choose an engine that is as close to your desired outcome as possible, but when the source code available...and idtech4 provides a lot of it...then the engine can be 'tailored' to fit the needs of the project...such as we were able to do with TDM.
Anyway, sorry to derail.
The screenshot on the previous page is absolutely stunning. I look forward to playing it.
New Horizon on 2/2/2011 at 21:26
Quote Posted by Thor
Won't Thief 4 be moddable?
We must assume nothing. The only reason we got a Thief 3 level editor is because one guy took it upon himself to prepare it for public use in his spare time. If Eidos Montreal doesn't design their tools for release from the start, then the chances are slim they will spend more time and money preparing them to work in a non-developer environment.
In addition to that, a level editor is not the same thing as a full SDK.
nbohr1more on 2/2/2011 at 21:46
Quote Posted by Thor
Not that I care about you enraged people here, but what is with all that moving to TDM thing? As a thief-themed platform it is technologically the most advanced. From a simple perspective it is the obvious choice. For short time anyway. But Rocksbourg is a long time kind of project. Won't Thief 4 be moddable? If it won't then someone could've blurted it out referencing to my previous comment. If it would be moddable though then something tells me it would be a more appropriate mission builder. Ok, ok, I'm a bit pissed at everyone motivating to migrate to TDM, but I do have a point there with the thief 4 deal, unless it was said that it won't be moddable.
Why be angry a folks providing a free (except for the cost of Doom 3) Thief style experience in a more modern and less restrictive platform? Think of it this way, "If TDM didn't exist anyone who speculated about what Thief would be like if updated to modern standards would be stifled as a hardcore extremist. Now there is more than pub talk about this concept, we have living proof of a direction the Thief series could've taken instead of just idle words that would go ignored by the console-centric game marketers. The creators of Thief 4 cannot ignore what TDM says, or represents. As TDM grows, any Thief 4 mis-steps due to console compromises or draconian DRM, etc... will be contrasted against this Fully Operational Death Star..." :ebil:
BrokenArts on 2/2/2011 at 21:50
Quote Posted by PotatoGuy
I'm all fine with everything that everybody said about everything but please, BA, don't go on the teacher_1 tour. :(
Don't know what that is. Isn't my opinion too. :p
Dia on 3/2/2011 at 00:39
:laff:
:thumb:
Yandros on 3/2/2011 at 02:24
Quote Posted by BrokenArts
Don't know what that is. Isn't my opinion too. :p
He was referring to your ABUNDANT use of CAPITALIZATION, dear. (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131398) Read this when you're ready for a great laugh, but you may want to pop some popcorn first, like DrK has done for this thread.
BrokenArts on 3/2/2011 at 02:58
NO NEED TO POINT THAT OUT..... DEAR. I ALREADY KNOW HOW THE PEOPLE AROUND HERE LIKE TO NIT PICK. THERE IS THAT BETTER? ~_^ MY CaPs LoCkS KeY iS sTuCk.
nbohr1more on 3/2/2011 at 05:19
Quote Posted by ManicMan
erm.. did i just declare open season on me? I made a comment and said that is just my view. I see nothing wrong with stating a view if you don't pretend that it is really a fact, or a widely held view.. i didn't say it was.. I just said it was my view.. why must the vocal crowds go with a 'his view is different, kill him' attitude? I know about TDM. I've been messing around with code for long enough to know what you can turn some engines into. Since I'm already getting moan at over this, if i say i prefer to make my own engines tailored to my own needs, will that get alot of flames shot at me?
I used to know a guy that used the Doom engine to make a 3D platformer.. good work too. Wouldn't have been my choice though. Back in the 90s, in my doom days, someone made a nice looking 'Doom Racing game'. nice, but If i wanted to play a racing game, i would just get out a racing game. I never said anything against the fact nor did i say anything for it. I simple stated that i preferred playing a game that is the style the engine was more designed for. I feel (please notice that i am giving what is MY view, no-one else's and i don't like to lie and say 'i think everyone would agree' and stuff like that, cause I'm often one that doesn't agree with a person then they say that) that using a tailored engine can often give the best results. Anyone that is a fellow programmer disagree with that? I would welcome the chat as along as they don't go into it head strong. Though i don't think this is the right place for it and i think it's probably casing a bit of a dark shadow over the project and work of a good designer.
I'm also, a little upset at how and in some cases, who have started to attack me for having my own view... Sadly, it's one reason why i agree with the idea 'never meet your heroes'.. I know tons of people i look up to that have views I don't agree with.. Doesn't really change much but can be a bit jarring.... like when i found out one guy was rascist.. someone that enjoys stuff that shows all different people getting along no-matter there background and bred etc, was rascist.. weird..
So if anyone else wants to attack me or carry this on in such a way, want to take it to another place so as not to distract from the topic at hand.. just PM me with the topic url so i can see how it goes.
I see that I posted to quickly and replied to the wrong poster.
These are not further "attacks" but instead questions that will help me to understand your stance better.
First, my assertion.
Your racing game analogy is a little off. Thief games are not running from within an engine that is "inherently tailored" to them. They are running from within what would be a standard FPS engine as evidenced by the fact that System Shock uses the same engine.
Questions:
What if the Dromed editor never existed and a team of clever coders made thier own System Shock editor and re-created Thief-like assets from scratch so that Fan Missions could be created?
Would you play these missions or write them off as not being suitably "Thief" enough?
(My answer)
Doom 3 has 1000x the potential compared to the above scenario. It is an FPS engine just as Dark Engine is an FPS engine.
There is nothing in the Doom 3 engine that makes it inherently bad at Thief style games any more that you could consider Dark Engine bad at Thief games if it had only been used for System Shock.
So perhaps your opinion is that the art asset collection is the key to whether a game is appropriate for Thief style fan missions?
What does that say about Thief re-texturing projects, or new models, etc?
Why is it more legitimate to replace an ugly Thief texture with a better version than to replace an inappropriate Doom 3 texture with a Thief style one? (Isn't the end result the same?)
What if Thief 4 used a modified Doom 3 engine? Would TDM suddenly become a legitimate platform because there is now an Eidos branded asset collection for the engine?
(I will now fantasize about that last question... :laff: )
