King Ronald on 7/8/2003 at 17:13
People i could kill with glee:
Gunther
Manderly
Simons
Bob Page
That Graveyard Attendant
The Odd Mechanic
That newspaper bloke (you know, the one with the tasche)
MJ12/MIB troops
People i didn't want to kill, but had to:
Sailors
Engineers
Mechanics
Most of the UNATCO staff
Versalife people who wanted to activate the alarm
NSF
I think the worst part for me was having to kill Navarre, cos she was a vicious leather-clad sadist, and I really thought we could get something going. I mean, underneath the whole "wipe them out, all of them" proto-nazi thing was a really sweet person...
I have always felt that death in games should be ultra-realistic (not necesarilly gory, there's a difference) so that, ideally, the player should be disgusted with themselves every time they kill someone. That would really make you feel the morals.
fatso the wombat on 8/8/2003 at 09:38
People I kill with glee
1. Anyone who wants to kill me
2. Louis Pan(I think thats his name)
People who I dont like to kill, but will if I must
1. Anyone else in the game
Come on guys its just a game, and Nethawk, how can a person get disgusted by eliminating a programed AI in a game thats made up of 1's and 0's....talk about sensitive:confused:
chris the cynic on 8/8/2003 at 18:58
Quote:
Originally posted by King Ronald I have always felt that death in games should be ultra-realistic (not necesarilly gory, there's a difference) so that, ideally, the player should be disgusted with themselves every time they kill someone. That would really make you feel the morals. Exactly, that is what I want to say to people who are against realistic violence in games, the more realistic it is the more disgusted you are by it.
fatso the wombat on 9/8/2003 at 04:11
Not necessarily, do you get disgusted evry time there is a realistic dealth in a movie, which looks more real because they are using live actors and not some animated figure. Do you fast forward the parts which portray some poor soldier who got shot just one day before he could go home and think "How disgusting, Im never going to watch another war movie again", if people are so disguted by violence in video games that show death (realistic looking or not), then games like DX2 and HL2 are not going to do very well, based on that assumption. I dont think morals should come into a way you play the game. If you want to go and get a 0 kill score at the end of every level, cool, but I would do it as a differentplay style and not because im disguted by the sight of a dead Tracer Tong !!! :cool:
Krahl on 9/8/2003 at 19:10
So far all the previews only show scenes where all the focus is on either showing off the physics, the lighting or the weapons. I want to see some newspaper/book/BBS reading and more NPC interaction damnit! I wouldn't even care if DX 2 had the same graphics as DX. The story and the immersion are what made DX great and they should focus on it.
About killing innocents, it's pretty simple in my case: I play nice at least once, and then I try again killing anyone I can to see if they have some goodies, or just for the hell of it (like listen to Alex or Manderley freaking out for example). It's all about the replay value. :ebil:
chris the cynic on 9/8/2003 at 20:23
You should be disgusted. If there is a movie where it is so realistic that i makes you forget you're watching and just for a moment think that it is all real, and someone dies either you should feel sickened at some level or there is something wrong with you.
If you can watch someone die of sucking chest wound with total realism and you don't get any kind of sick feeling, then you have problems.
Does that mean you won't watch that kind of movie? Does that mean that you wouldn't cause a person to die like that in a game? Hell no. It is with real jeopardy that real emotion comes into play, and that's when movies and books are at their best. Whether it is emotional of physical stakes the more realistic the pain the more moving it is. And the more disgusting.
An action movie takes just the opposite approach, it makes the death unrealistic and thus entertaining.
fatso the wombat on 10/8/2003 at 02:16
OK, take for example Saving Private Ryan and Casino, two very different movies each with realistic depictions of death. Some scenes in these movies were quite "disturbing" not because of the blood and gore, but based on the reflection of the movie afterwards. But as the old saying goes, if you dont like it dont watch it.
Just the same as a computer game. If there are elements to a game that you dont like, then dont play it. If you really hate "putting the bullet into someones head, because you feel disgusted by it, then why have you put yourself int the position where you can, by either carrying around the gun or even loading the game in the first place.
Those are the situations in the game, dont get disgusted by it, just deal with it.
Dont get angry Chris, I dont hate you (hey I dont even know you :p ) I just really love debating thing like this :)
chris the cynic on 10/8/2003 at 04:13
fatso the wombat,
Oh I'm not angry, far from it. I think that in a game in Deus Ex death should be made to be disturbing because part of the game is the moral decisions you are able to make. If you want to go in and kill everything rather than try the nonviolent/less violent approach then there should be more in terms of repercussions than a gameplay feature here and a feeling in the back of your mind that you did or didn't do the right thing in a fake world.
There should be an immediate feeling in your stomach as you see a realistic end befall a realistic character. It doesn't take mental energy to decide that this guy is bad so I kill him, and for many games that's enough, but Deus Ex should challenge you. We've seen depth on many levels, this should be one of them as soon as they can do it, thus now if they are ready. Rather than shooting the bad guy saving the innocent you should have to give it some thought, and if you decide to kill the person you should be left with idea that what you killed isn't a cardboard cut-out stock character. It was a soldier who was following orders and putting food on the table for their children who now may starve because you just shot their beloved father because he was trying to make a difference in the world while supporting them on his own since they were abandoned by their mother. Or other appropriate thing. Obviously it's not just good people who you'd be killing, some really would be sadistic asses.
It doesn't have to be the gore that makes it disturbing, and you always know that it's just “make believe” or whatever you chose to call a computer generated world filled with fictitious people. It's not like I'm saying that it should keep you up nights, but somewhere at some level the game should make killing seem wrong, so that way when you kill one thing so that another can live it actually was making a decision of some weight.
OK, take for example Saving Private Ryan and Casino, two very different movies each with realistic depictions of death. Some scenes in these movies were quite "disturbing" not because of the blood and gore, but based on the reflection of the movie afterwards. But as the old saying goes, if you dont like it dont watch it. Do you think these movies are better or worse because they had disturbing elements? I'd bet they would be worse if those parts were not disturbing.
I never said I didn't like it, I said I think parts
should be disturbing. I think it would add to the gameplay (player side), and the immersion. I think it would also make the replay factor better as it would encourage you to find the best solution even more.
