Beleg Cúthalion on 4/9/2013 at 08:11
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
It's realistic for tile [...] to make more noise when wearing
any footwear with a
rigid outsole or heel-- metal,
hard leather, wood, etc.
Bold by me. You have to do pretty nasty stuff to leather to make it rigid enough, and even then there is a good chance it will soften by use. Medieval shoes had pretty soft soles by modern standards (which led to a high consumption of shoes, hence the many excavated ones) which would be ideal for sneaking – and aside from squeaking they would be silent on tiles or metal.
Chade on 4/9/2013 at 08:31
Wait, so *that's* why the guards always think it's rats! And here I was thinking it was just a flimsy excuse ... mind blown.
Jason Moyer on 4/9/2013 at 11:50
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Yep. Running shoes would squeak and if you've ever done this on tiles in a large old house you'll know it's hella noisy.
And anyone who's walked on hardwood floors, even barefoot, knows how incredibly noisy they are, so the "walking on a wooden floor is quiet" thing in Thief really doesn't make sense.
Vivian on 4/9/2013 at 12:03
Quote Posted by Chade
So if we assume that your default skulking about posture is already slightly bent, should Garrett actually raise his head level slightly when he starts sprinting and lower it again when he stops?
Yeah... maybe. Sprinting is a tricky one, because if you are
accelerating (which is generally what sprinting is, mostly) you lean forwards (lowering your head) so that gravity acting on your centre of mass exerts a torque about your hip to counteract the increased torque from your legs, which would otherwise start to push you over backwards. Like when a motorbike pops a wheelie. If you're steady-state running, during the stance phase you're also lower than you would be walking because you are letting your limbs compress under the load of your weight (stretching tendons out) and then spring back to launch you into the air for the swing phase. But you're higher during the swing phase than in walking, because you're in the air. I think a realistic amount of head-bob for running would probably make you feel sick IVG. Plus there's all sorts of gaze stabilisation stuff going on with your eyes IRL that means you don't feel as shaken about as you should.
jay pettitt on 4/9/2013 at 13:07
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
stuff
Umm what.
Quote:
You have to do pretty nasty stuff to leather to make it rigid
err, and are you trying to say that nasty things weren't doable historically (oh they were) or hard soles weren't available (they were)?
Quote:
Medieval shoes had pretty soft soles by modern standards
Like clogs for example?
And there was me thinking that hard soles were popular (
http://youtu.be/qC0mKHoHvYY) because of the stink and faeces.
And since when was Thief medieval?
And since when couldn't a game or fiction take liberties?
Sure, maybe a sneak would prefer a pair of sneakers. But that would deprive Thief the Video Game of a neat and tidy ludic mechanic. It being a game, not a simulation of reality or historical record. so factually dubious arguments + also irrelevant arguments surely.
Also, entirely non argumentatively, I always find that at night I'm acutely aware of even smallest noises I make if I try a sneak quietly to the loo or something, almost as though sounds are amplified by the night.
ZylonBane on 4/9/2013 at 13:35
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Medieval shoes had pretty soft soles by modern standards (which led to a high consumption of shoes, hence the many excavated ones) which would be ideal for sneaking – and aside from squeaking they would be silent on tiles or metal.
Congratulations on completely missing the point.
SubJeff on 4/9/2013 at 14:03
Explain to them properly ZB. Step by step.
jay pettitt on 4/9/2013 at 14:13
step by step geddit.... groan :/
Springheel on 4/9/2013 at 14:52
Quote:
False. It's realistic for tile (or any rigid surface) to make more noise when wearing any footwear with a rigid outsole or heel-- metal, hard leather, wood, etc.
If you want to get nit-picky about it, yes, the statement would hold true for any kind of hard, clompy shoe. The overall point still stands. A thief would not wear a hard clompy shoe (while guards reasonably might, which is the more likely explanation for why players don't complain about that).
In any other circumstances than wearing a hard, clompy shoe, tile floors are easy to walk quietly on, while wood, grass, and other surfaces are much more difficult. If you can't agree with that basic point, then we're not going to get very far.
Quote:
Yep. Running shoes would squeak
Which I guess would matter if Garrett wore modern running shoes. I'm not even sure what to do with that statement.
Quote:
Congratulations on completely missing the point.
Maybe you'd like to spell it out for the rest of us then, because it seemed like a perfectly valid response to me. You either have to argue that reasonably soft shoes are louder on tile than other surfaces, which is demonstrably false, or that a thief wouldn't wear such shoes, when Beleg just pointed out that they would be available. Or you can retract the claim that it's "realistic" and agree that it's a rough abstraction for gameplay purposes.
jay pettitt on 4/9/2013 at 16:03
If you had soft leather shoes and if it were medieval you'd by ankle deep in sticky poo and slimey dung by the time you made it to the gig, and you'd squelch your way around Baffords, squelching most loudly of all on tile floors.
I hope Thief 4 captures this correctly.
