Goldmoon Dawn on 2/9/2013 at 17:46
At the end of the day, it all falls under the umbrella of suspension of disbelief circa 1998.
Springheel on 2/9/2013 at 19:48
Quote:
I never minded it. It was just feedback for the player - Garrett wasn't wearing noisy shoes.
That explanation doesn't explain why guards freak out if they hear a single crouched footstep on tile floors. In real life, tile floors are very easy to be quiet on unless you're wearing extremely hard soles.
Quote:
At the end of the day, it all falls under the umbrella of suspension of disbelief circa 1998.
Yes, and that's fine. But it's not an immediate problem if they don't do it that way in 2013. It might be possible to come up with other ways of accomplishing the same kind of gameplay considerations.
Chade on 2/9/2013 at 21:36
Quote Posted by Dia
Maybe for you, but I disagree. Having to take my time, deliberate and judge distances, guards' routines, etc., were all quite immersive for me as well as 'meaningful'. Especially if it was going to be necessary to blackjack one of the guards in order to prevent him from alerting others, an action in an environment where you couldn't just 'blast' your way through.
Of course I agree with all of that, Dia, but that's not the situation I described.
The situation I described, quite a common one in some missions, is where I want to move along a path. The entire floor is tiles (more on that next paragraph). The path is completely out of view of the guards, I don't have to be "deliberate" or judge "distances" or "guard routines" ... the guards will not see me at any point on this path. There is no gameplay whatsoever to be had while traversing this path. The
only restriction on my movement is that I'm walking on tiles, so I have to inch along the floor. There's no tension. There's no deliberation. No judgement. No danger. Just me dragging myself laboriously along so as to avoid triggering my magical tap dancing shoes.
This is mostly a problem with tiles, not so much metal grating, because tiles are the standard textures to communicate that "hey, this is the house of a rich guy". You don't see floors covered wall to wall in metal grating as often as floors covered wall to wall by tiles. IMO the "default" material for any given dwelling should not be extremely quiet or extremely loud (I would not want a mansion completely covered in carpet any more then a mansion completely covered in tiles). They noise level of the texture which covers most of a house should be somewhere in the middle. Variation is good, just ... not quite so much. Going back to T1/2, I would have liked both tiles and stone adjusted to be closer to wood.
Robert4222 on 2/9/2013 at 21:45
Not to break the topic but, How the hell does crouching reduce the sound you make? I tried doing it many times and it doesn't change the amount of noise you produce , not to mention your legs bones are constantly cracking.
Chade on 2/9/2013 at 21:55
Haha. Standard stealth game trope?
Forgot to reply to this earlier ...
Quote Posted by Springheel
The article claims it's slow. "You’re almost completely silent when crouching, although you’re not very fast, either."
The way I'm thinking about it, it's not going to be easy to tell until we have the game in our hands. The question (for me) is whether the speed difference between crouch movement and normal movement is meaningful to the gameplay. Part of that is the size of the speed difference. Another part is the level design: how far apart are the safe spots. And of course now we have swooping as well, which might be the best approach in some instances where previously you would have chosen between crouching or sprinting. I think we're just going to have to wait and see how it plays.
ZylonBane on 2/9/2013 at 22:02
Quote Posted by Springheel
The "tap shoe" feature has got to be the silliest, most unrealistic element of the original games.
Alternatively, you're being a hyperbolic ninnyhammer about a feature which most people who play the Thief games have no problem accepting as an abstraction of the problem of moving stealthily through varied environments (an abstraction which is in fact entirely realistic, just exaggerated).
Also silly and unrealistic:
- Garrett's infinite bag of holding
- Garrett's six-foot-long arms
- Why Garrett hasn't been able to retire ten times over by now
- Guards who forget they saw anyone 60 seconds after chasing you
- Guards who don't notice someone right next to them falling over dead
- An inch of arrowtip buried in wood supporting Garrett's weight
- Blackjacks that knock people unconscious 100% of the time in one hit (and presumably never kill them)
- Crystals that turn into arrows the moment you pick them up
- Magic
It's a game. They have acceptable breaks with reality. Get over it. If Garrett went on his jobs wearing fur-lined velvet moccasins, a huge part of the challenge would be removed.
Robert4222 on 2/9/2013 at 22:29
What's the point of robbing very expensive objects in mansions if he just ends up wasting his money to prepare another potential coup ?
I may understand that's his way of life, but living to do the same risky actions, without achieving anything in particular doesn't make sense IMO.
Chade on 2/9/2013 at 22:43
The point is we get missions to play.
Goldmoon Dawn on 2/9/2013 at 22:43
Quote Posted by Robert4222
I may understand that's his way of life, but living to do the same risky actions, without achieving anything in particular doesn't make sense IMO.
The original rough idea was that Garrett was merely saving for his retirement. Its not overly complex.
Robert4222 on 2/9/2013 at 23:24
Yet, in DS he still lives in a very modest apartment.
