Vae on 2/9/2013 at 02:04
Once again, in practical gameplay application and experience, I can assure you that that the player will be essentially silent when crouched, sans the "noise spots"...In time, you will realize that I am correct.
Chade on 2/9/2013 at 02:09
Quote Posted by Vae
Chade, this is incorrect...One can crouch-walk, crouch-run, or crouch-creep...So it is indeed your lack of understanding that leaves you in confusion.
And every silent movement is, on a scale from from standing still to sprinting, slow. You can't say "
well, this slow movement is faster then this slow movement, therefore it doesn't matter how fast you are going!"
SubJeff on 2/9/2013 at 07:15
A. They are different speeds and practically this matters in game.
B. None of them are silent in Thief 1 and 2.
I know that will be the case Vae, but your logic is still incorrect.
TriangleTooth on 2/9/2013 at 11:55
Quote Posted by Vae
That's okay...although, even when crouching in T1/2, gravel still produces sound, relative to the movement speed variable.
It does produce sound, yes, but then so do all surfaces (even moss produces a very quiet sound). But in my experience, guards ignore it so the sound doesn't matter all that much.
However I guess it does leave a far greater framework for setting up more sensitive enemies and such.
Also I would point out that creep-crouching doesn't actually help all that much in Thief on say, tile - the only thing that matters is whether or not Garrett puts his foot down and the guards respond to that. Thus the only way across is to press and release the key until Garrett clears the surface without actually touching it.
SubJeff on 2/9/2013 at 12:22
There should be grades of noise, from most noisy to the least, based on speed and modified by surface.
The only time it should be silent, imho, is on grass or moss.
Goldmoon Dawn on 2/9/2013 at 13:00
Quote Posted by TriangleTooth
the only thing you could do was abuse the engine by pressing and releasing the walk key until you move across without putting your feet down
Quote Posted by TriangleTooth
the only thing that matters is whether or not Garrett puts his foot down and the guards respond to that. Thus the only way across is to press and release the key until Garrett clears the surface without actually touching it.
Yes, TriangleTooth, since you had to point it out two times I will formally agree. As a veteran master of Dark Project myself, the technique you describe can be perfected to the extent that you can actually move completely silently across tile and metal much faster than one might think.
Dia on 2/9/2013 at 13:09
Quote Posted by Chade
What I do know is that I find many situations when playing thief where moving over tiles or metal feels like a chore. There are guards around, no way of moving silently, I'm not worried about being spotted, but I know that if I don't move at the speed of a snail I'll get heard. It's not meaningful gameplay. There's no skill involved. I'm just sitting there dragging my bum along on the ground so that my magical tap dancing shoes don't give me away.
Maybe for you, but I disagree. Having to take my time, deliberate and judge distances, guards' routines, etc., were all quite immersive for me as well as 'meaningful'. Especially if it was going to be necessary to blackjack one of the guards in order to prevent him from alerting others, an action in an environment where you couldn't just 'blast' your way through.
Springheel on 2/9/2013 at 15:17
Quote:
Unlike NuThief, crouching in THIEF reduced sound projection only by a fraction, relative to the particular "noise rating" of that surface..
I know how it works, but assuming we're talking about default crouch-walking, weren't you "essentially silent" on everything but gravel, tile, and metal? How far away could guards hear you if you're crouch-walking on stone?
Quote:
He was using the term "surfaces", sloppily...which included the "noise spots".
Unless you've had a conversation with him that I wasn't privy to, there's no way for you to know that. He uses the term "surface" only twice, and one of those uses is specifically connected to "carpets or grass".
Quote:
My hazy memory of the E3 gameplay video is that crouch movement is quite fast.
The article claims it's slow. "You're almost completely silent when crouching, although you're not very fast, either."
The "tap shoe" feature has got to be the silliest, most unrealistic element of the original games. While the gameplay of choosing speed vs detectability and awareness of your surroundings is important, I welcome a more realistic way of approaching it.
SubJeff on 2/9/2013 at 16:21
Quote Posted by Dia
Maybe for you, but I disagree. Having to take my time, deliberate and judge distances, guards' routines, etc., were all quite immersive for me as well as 'meaningful'. Especially if it was going to be necessary to blackjack one of the guards in order to prevent him from alerting others, an action in an environment where you couldn't just 'blast' your way through.
Absolutely. It was part of what made things tense.
Quote Posted by Springheel
The "tap shoe" feature has got to be the silliest, most unrealistic element of the original games. While the gameplay of choosing speed vs detectability and awareness of your surroundings is important, I welcome a more realistic way of approaching it.
I never minded it. It was just feedback for the player - Garrett wasn't wearing noisy shoes.
I would welcome a better way of doing it though.
Nuth on 2/9/2013 at 16:43
I always chalked the noisy shoes up to Garrett being hyperaware of the noise he was making while moving around. One of the things that made him such a good sneak.
