SubJeff on 1/9/2013 at 21:55
I think you'll find most fans thought the noise level on tile and metal was correct, and the slow speed you needed to avoid it also correct. It's what made it so intense.
Chade on 1/9/2013 at 22:14
Lot's of things would have been considered correct if introduced in the first game. The more relevant question is what would people prefer if they had originally been presented with both options side by side. We'll probably never know.
What I do know is that I find many situations when playing thief where moving over tiles or metal feels like a chore. There are guards around, no way of moving silently, I'm not worried about being spotted, but I know that if I don't move at the speed of a snail I'll get heard. It's not meaningful gameplay. There's no skill involved. I'm just sitting there dragging my bum along on the ground so that my magical tap dancing shoes don't give me away.
Vae on 1/9/2013 at 22:37
Quote Posted by Springheel
So you equate "almost completely silent" to "essentially silent"?
Yes, as that would be the logical gameplay equivalent.
Quote:
How loud was crouching in T1/2 anyway? If you weren't on tile or metal, wasn't it "almost silent"?
Unlike NuThief, crouching in THIEF reduced sound projection only by a fraction, relative to the particular "noise rating" of that surface...Movement speed, plays a significant role as a natural, dynamic, controllable variable by the player, according to
continual player skill...rather than the simulated auto-silent master thief skill, with the
exception of a contextual "noise spot", in NuThief.
Quote:
I don't think it is, since in the same quote he uses the term "surfaces" to describe grass or carpet. But if you want to interpret things negatively there's enough ambiguity to do so.
He was using the term "surfaces", sloppily...which included the "noise spots".
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Now I know I'm one to (usually) think like you are here Springheel but at this point I'm more inclined to think Vae is correct.
A wise choice.
SubJeff on 1/9/2013 at 23:18
Nah bro. You're likely right but for the wrong reasons. Those two things aren't logical equivalents.
TriangleTooth on 2/9/2013 at 01:17
In all fairness, Thief had 3 surfaces that were bad. Metal, Tile and Gravel. All other surfaces would not alert guards if you walked or even ran on them, with stone and wood alerting them if you jumped on them.
Gravel would be silenced by crouching, tile and metal couldn't be stopped at all, creep-crouching didn't help, the only thing you could do was abuse the engine by pressing and releasing the walk key until you move across without putting your feet down (imagining Garrett hovering over the surface) or remove it with a moss arrow.
In truth it wasn't really all that sophisticated. However, it has an advantage over noise patches in that it was added to levels more naturally, where as noise patches will either A: always have a silent path between them or B: be unfairly placed so they cannot be avoided or removed.
Vae on 2/9/2013 at 01:20
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Nah bro. You're likely right but for the wrong reasons. Those two things aren't logical equivalents.
Even though, from an absolute technical level, the two are not exactly equivalent, it will equate to same the
gameplay effect...So yes, I am correct, and for right reasons.
Quote Posted by TriangleTooth
Gravel would be silenced by crouching, tile and metal couldn't be stopped at all...
This is incorrect...In TDS, when crouched, all surfaces became silent...regardless of player speed.
TriangleTooth on 2/9/2013 at 01:29
Quote Posted by Vae
This is incorrect...In TDS, when crouched, all surfaces became silent...regardless of player speed.
Sorry, I meant to put in Thief 1/2.
Chade on 2/9/2013 at 01:40
Quote Posted by Vae
In TDS, when crouched, all surfaces became silent...regardless of player speed.
Crouching is moving slowly. You can't put "
regardless of player speed" at the end there. "
All surfaces are silent when the player moves slowly ... regardless of how slowly the player moves" makes no sense.
Vae on 2/9/2013 at 01:51
Quote Posted by TriangleTooth
Sorry, I meant to put in Thief 1/2.
That's okay...although, even when crouching in T1/2, gravel still produces sound, relative to the movement speed variable.
Quote Posted by Chade
Crouching is moving slowly. You can't put "
regardless of player speed" at the end there. "
All surfaces are silent when the player moves slowly ... regardless of how slowly the player moves" makes no sense.
Chade, this is incorrect...One can crouch-walk, crouch-run, or crouch-creep...So it is indeed your lack of understanding that leaves you in confusion.
SubJeff on 2/9/2013 at 01:55
Quote Posted by Vae
Even though, from an absolute technical level, the two are not exactly equivalent, it will equate to same the
gameplay effect...So yes, I am correct, and for right reasons.
Nope.
In one instance you make a small (the smallest) amount of noise, in the other you make none.
