Vae on 1/9/2013 at 01:04
Quote Posted by Springheel
I interpreted the article as saying that crouching was NOT completely silent. You're mostly silent, but on "some surfaces" you make noise. That seems to be in addition to noise patches, though it's not completely clear:
The key phrase is "You're almost completely silent when crouching"...meaning, ultra quiet...very close to absolute silence...from a practical standpoint, essentially silent. Because he framed this phrase as a basic reference to crouching in general, I interpret the "some surfaces will make more noise than others even if you're crouching" as a reference to "noise patches", when crouched.
Quote:
Regardless, it's a step up from TDS.
It sounds like it will be a
minor step up from TDS, and a
major step down from TDP/TMA...and I'm only referring to crouching, not the combined effect of crouching and swooping.
Quote:
The latest podcast on the issue clearly states that you can be spotted while swooping.
Yes...and they also state swooping is silent, as well.
Robert4222 on 1/9/2013 at 01:08
Quote Posted by Mofleaker
Did they show off a PC control scheme? If you're referring to the PS4 control scheme that was shown, creeping would probably be accomplished by pushing the left stick slowly! I think it was like this in TDS?
You had to hold a button I think, just like the PC version.
Mofleaker on 1/9/2013 at 01:11
@Vae There's really no telling... We seem to be given a lot of vague info on this kind of stuff. Hopefully Subjective Effect's question on the EM forums:
Quote:
Will crouch-moving and swooping always be silent unless over "special" surfaces like broken glass or are there general surfaces, like marble, where they will make some noise?
will be answered in full detail.
TriangleTooth on 1/9/2013 at 01:50
What exactly IS swooping anyway, like if we could see Garrett from 3rd person while doing it (no we don't want to), what would it look like? Is he rolling? Is he leaping forward? Cartwheeling??
SubJeff on 1/9/2013 at 04:58
SubZero sliding like in Mortal Kombat 1.
wafflepotatopancake on 1/9/2013 at 05:34
Quote Posted by TriangleTooth
"If Garrett moves across certain areas, such as broken glass on the floor, he’ll also attract unwanted attention. Even if he moves silently across them, they’ll still make a sound if you step on them and guards will react to that."
So no, you can't move silently on all surfaces. Hopefully this isn't just for clutter on the ground but for things like water and such. Though they do in the same breath say crouching is silent except for noise patches... so I guess tiled floors remaining loud is out, unless some tiles are broken :nono:
Otherwise, apparently AI respond to each other's barks and a lot of stimuli which is good, and the difficulty is supposed to affect AI rather than number.
I just finished playing through a game called DARK which I also started today (I managed to finish in just a few hours) and though there was no use of weapons like there will be in NuThief, it had things like glass/papers/cardboard whatever crap strewn on the floor that made noise. It was not a fun mechanic, and it wasn't an interesting mechanic. It wasn't even a frustrating or pacing mechanic, it was just like, there. Since I was trying to ghost out of habit, it just pretty worthless and never did anything more than be annoying. Half the time the guards never even heard it.
I played though the game on Hard from the start since it was supposedly a stealth based game, and it was, but it was also absolutely terrible. The sad fact is, the game reminded me painfully of NuThief (from which I can only base this on what little gameplay I've seen), from the mechanics to the stealth powers to the EXP system. It was just a plain and absolutely terrible game.
I'm really hoping to see a Thief 4 and not NuThief. Ground clutter will add something new to the game for an obstacle if they do it right, but if it is implemented poorly like in DARK then it is better not to bother with it at all.
SubJeff on 1/9/2013 at 07:24
The game reminded you of a game that you've only seen 5 minutes of gameplay from, on video?
A game that looks nothing like Thief?
Ooooohk then.
Springheel on 1/9/2013 at 12:31
Quote:
The key phrase is "You're almost completely silent when crouching"...meaning, ultra quiet...very close to absolute silence...from a practical standpoint, essentially silent.
So you equate "almost completely silent" to "essentially silent"? How loud was crouching in T1/2 anyway? If you weren't on tile or metal, wasn't it "almost silent"?
Quote:
Because he framed this phrase as a basic reference to crouching in general, I interpret the "some surfaces will make more noise than others even if you’re crouching" as a reference to "noise patches", when crouched.
I don't think it is, since in the same quote he uses the term "surfaces" to describe grass or carpet. But if you want to interpret things negatively there's enough ambiguity to do so.
To me, it sounds like this could be a much more realistic system that works essentially the same as previous games. Instead of having to pay close attention to the type of floor (oh no, there's a strip of metal across the road) you have to pay attention for things that might reasonably cause noise--loose floorboards, leaves, twigs, broken glass, gravel, precariously placed vases, etc. At the same time, you don't have to give Garrett tap shoes anymore, removing one of the sillier elements of the first games.
SubJeff on 1/9/2013 at 17:25
Now I know I'm one to (usually) think like you are here Springheel but at this point I'm more inclined to think Vae is correct.
And I know it looks like he is jumping to conclusions but the entire bunny hopping bullsh!t over at EM forums has really affected my faith in EM. I think it entirely possible for them to say those things and for "almost completely silent" to actually mean "essentially silent".
We'll have to wait and see. I have asked about this in the latest dev question thread.
Chade on 1/9/2013 at 21:50
I personally don't think that "is crouching silent?" is the right question. The right question IMO is "can level designers create a meaningful distinction between moving silently and moving quickly when they want to?".
The possibility that Vae is correct (I'm not at all convinced he is, but there is a reasonable chance) doesn't trouble me. That just creates a clear choice between standing and crouching, which I think is a good thing. What would concern me is if that choice didn't result in a clear difference in movement speed as well. My hazy memory of the E3 gameplay video is that crouch movement is quite fast.
There's a balance to be achieved here. I'm not convinced that T1/2 got the silent vs. fast balance right with their loudest textures. Moving without sound on tiles and metal in T1 and T2 is painfully slow, and moving quickly is painfully loud. It certainly provides a very clear choice, but I think it's a bit overkill.
The wood texture was a good balance, I thought. Stone maybe a little too silent for a material that is so common.
