Pyrian on 7/9/2013 at 00:26
Dishonored's stealth would've seemed more natural if all the enemies had large visors on. As it was, their lack of upward vision was quite noticeable.
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
If we are talking about the broken movement in Deadly Shadow here, then yeah. To any seasoned Thief veteran, the movement was broken upon first inspection.
Pretty much anyone who played FPS on a regular basis, I would think. I got used to it, but it was really very strange.
Beleg Cúthalion on 7/9/2013 at 05:51
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
I dont remember, Beleg, was Deadly your first Thief experience?
No, TMA first, then TDP, dismissing TDS for a long time, mainly because of loading zones, missing German voice acting and simplified readables. But just go on declaring what TruThief is and what its TruFans should do. Pluralism is overrated anyway.
Well, polemics aside, my experience was that the movement control system was awkward, but there was a way to handle it. I think this is NOT different from having e.g. lots of keybinds which are typical for PC games and which, if EM decides to simplify it in order not to have the controls getting in your way, gets the usual raging from "purists" like you. I thought the controls in TDS were a challenge to accept, you condemn them as broken but at the same time dismiss EM's approach to make things more intuitive as dumbing down. Now tell me how that isn't applying double standards. But wait! I probably missed a very obvious point, likely because I'm not a TruThief fan.
Chade on 7/9/2013 at 06:17
I'm relatively open-minded about movement in thief. I wouldn't call Thief 3's controls broken either: they are less natural then thief 1-2, and with a bit of care they are 100% accurately. Whether movement in thief is naturally powerful like thief 1 and 2, or requires deliberate and careful action to make the most of like thief 3, I think either possibility can be suitable for a thief game.
TriangleTooth on 7/9/2013 at 09:59
I think the issue was behaviour like the way Garrett side-stepped if you turned to look behind you and then moved forward.
Chade on 7/9/2013 at 11:00
Yes, you had to take a bit of care to turn around before moving. In the worst case this should take half a second or so. That's what I'm referring to when I say that it wasn't as natural, but with a bit of care you are 100% accurate.
IMO it works out ok in thief, because it fits the feel of the game to be a little carefull and deliberate with your movement. If I was able to choose between the two, I'd go for not having to think about it at all as in thief 1-2, but if a thief game forces me to pay more attention to my character's movement, it doesn't worry me too much. In a different genre I'd be more upset.
Goldmoon Dawn on 7/9/2013 at 13:02
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
I thought the controls in TDS were a challenge to accept, you condemn them as broken but at the same time dismiss EM's approach to make things more intuitive as dumbing down. Now tell me how that isn't applying double standards. But wait! I probably missed a very obvious point, likely because I'm not a TruThief fan.
I cannot possibly respond to someone who puts words into others mouths.
SubJeff on 7/9/2013 at 15:39
Quote Posted by Chade
I'm relatively open-minded about movement in thief. I wouldn't call Thief 3's controls broken either: they are less natural then thief 1-2, and with a bit of care they are 100% accurately.
Open minded?
a. Lean is a sidestep that can make you fall off edges. This isn't broken?
b. With a bit of care a rifle scope that is out by 50cm will be on target. Does that make it accurate?
Open minded?
More like without any standards.
Tomi on 7/9/2013 at 16:09
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Lean is a sidestep that can make you fall off edges. This isn't broken?
I haven't played Deadly Shadows in ages so I may have forgotten some of the flaws of the control system, but I can't remember this "falling off edges" ever being a real problem for me. So yeah, I wouldn't call it broken. You lean off an edge in real life, and you may fall if you're not careful enough. Once you get used to it, it shouldn't be much of a problem. However, of course it is a problem if you really
want it to be one...
Goldmoon Dawn on 7/9/2013 at 16:36
@ Tomi - Yeah, its not just the lean. Subjective wasnt even referring to the main problem with the movement, that is to say that if you are looking straight ahead and then mouselook to the left and start moving, your body must first swivel around before moving the direction you are looking at. That isnt broken in *3rd person* but it sure as hell is in *1st person*. So, I suppose if you think that Thief isnt a 1st person game, then yeah... anything can be glossed over.
And beleg, thank you. You have done a great service by bringing that gem of a post back to the forefront! However, you said that I dismissed EM for dumbing down etc... I never said that. I merely let their own words do the talking, and again, thank you, as that was the post that got the whole contextual gameplay argument ignited...
