BEAR on 20/8/2007 at 00:43
I'm not sure if this is worthy of a thread or not, but it stirred me up as it hits pretty close to home.
(
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu) link
I guess its just one asshole overzealous cop causing trouble but on the other hand it also makes you wonder, if a cop comes to your house and starts beating the shit out of you, who do you call? In this case at least, you call the cops and get threatened to be tazered and then taken to jail anyways.
I live in Asheville and I drive by this area all the time. The impression I get is the county police are pretty much rednecks (as the county itself is pretty red, even though the city is quite liberal, but the sheriffs office is in downtown anyways). My impression of the city cops has been that they are a fairly decent bunch. there was a recent row about the former sheriff burying guns and missing drugs or some such nonsense.
I guess Law Enforcement attracts control freaks and people who like power in general, and as bad as it is this is exactly the kind of guy I want to come to my house when that crazy drunk guy up the street starts trying to smash the front door down in the middle of the night, maybe a little police brutality (though terrible) is the price we pay, since who else would do that kind of shit.
Thoughts?
Aerothorn on 20/8/2007 at 02:11
Of course, the other thing that should be noted is that the law is without a doubt unconstitutional - this ain't exactly a new case. Tons of laws have banned desecrating flags, burning flags - they've even tried doing it at the national level - but every time it is challenged is is struck down as a violation of the first amendment.
This is where things get interesting. The department claims “when we receive a complaint that the law is being broken, we have to respond.” This is probably true. But should a cop enforce a law that he/she knows is illegal? On one hand, the obvious answer is "No". On the other, the cops job is to enforce the law, not to judge it. Hmmm.
Either way, assuming the couple are telling the truth - and in my experience, in these cases it's usually the police who are lying - it is unacceptable and they should be fired and such. But usually they aren't, because police tend to be very defensive of each other, sometimes to the point (as is apparently the case here) of lying and distorting facts to cover their asses.
nuckinfutzcat on 20/8/2007 at 22:04
It's best to remember that these guys are old school good-ole-boys. When your National Guard buddy complains about his neighbor you go do something about it. Even if it means crossing jurisdictional lines.
P.S.
BEAR :
HEY NEIGHBOR !
OLmec (Hendersonville)
failure2comply on 21/8/2007 at 00:04
Doesn't surprise me in the least.
Lancer on 21/8/2007 at 00:19
OTOH, you just don't blow off the cops when you think you'e done with them. They asked for ID which is perfectly acceptable for them to do. Perhaps they wanted to cite them but not arrest them. But the couple shut the door in their faces. What are they supposed to do? Of course if the people won't open the door, the cops have to get in somehow.
The picture in the article, which was taken after the man had surrendered after being threatened with a tazer shows the cops acting professionally once the subject was under control, meaning cuffed. It's not like they are beating a cuffed man or anything.
In a briefing I received from a captain in Internal Affairs many years ago, he advised us to always follow the instructions of the officer when dealing with them. If they do something wrong, you catch them later in court. Because the officer is thinking of his safety and yours. He's going to be on the defensive and wary. Arguing or resisting is not a good thing to do. That tends to incite aggressive behavior to place the perceived threat under control.
I'm not saying that the article is wrong, and yeah, stuff like that happens, but I think it's easy to paint the picture with a story, especially being that it's a redneck sherrifs department. It's easy to generalize and stereotype them.
BEAR on 21/8/2007 at 01:39
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
Of course, the other thing that should be noted is that the law is without a doubt unconstitutional - this ain't exactly a new case. Tons of laws have banned desecrating flags, burning flags - they've even tried doing it at the national level - but every time it is challenged is is struck down as a violation of the first amendment.
This is where things get interesting. The department claims “when we receive a complaint that the law is being broken, we have to respond.” This is probably true. But should a cop enforce a law that he/she knows is illegal? On one hand, the obvious answer is "No". On the other, the cops job is to enforce the law, not to judge it. Hmmm.
Either way, assuming the couple are telling the truth - and in my experience, in these cases it's usually the police who are lying - it is unacceptable and they should be fired and such. But usually they aren't, because police tend to be very defensive of each other, sometimes to the point (as is apparently the case here) of lying and distorting facts to cover their asses.
When the first complaint was filed, the Asheville City police came by and asked if they needed assistance since an upside down flag has been known to be a sign of distress. They informed him that they were not and were making a political statement about the state of the country asked if they were violating any law and the officer informed them that they were not and had every right to do it and that they had researched it before sending an officer out.
We know for a fact the offier is lying because there are several eye witness accounts that saw the entire thing take place exactly as the man and wife described.
Quote:
OTOH, you just don't blow off the cops when you think you'e done with them. They asked for ID which is perfectly acceptable for them to do.
No it isnt, there is no law requiring you to show your identification to the police (as far as I know and as far as it was reported in the article, I didnt look it up myself)
Quote:
But the couple shut the door in their faces. What are they supposed to do? Of course if the people won't open the door, the cops have to get in somehow.
It is extremely against the law to force entry on a residence without any kind of warrent, especially when you are trying to enforce a non-existant law, he claims he was 'pursuing a criminal' which doesnt require a warrent but since there was no crime there was no criminal.
Quote:
The picture in the article, which was taken after the man had surrendered after being threatened with a tazer shows the cops acting professionally once the subject was under control, meaning cuffed. It's not like they are beating a cuffed man or anything.
True, but the camara's and neighbors probably forced them to. When the cop got inside the house he chased the husband around beating on him with a nightstick. When all the neighbors came to see what was going on and asked what they had done wrong the police said 'what do you care' like it isnt any of their business.
Trappin on 21/8/2007 at 02:45
The cop was out of line when he broke the window pane and the married couple need to stop being the neighborhood cheese-dicks.
steo on 21/8/2007 at 04:19
Quote Posted by BEAR
We know
for a fact the offier is lying because there are several eye witness accounts that saw the entire thing take place exactly as the man and wife described.
I completely agree that the cop was way out of line and should go down for what he did but I disagree with your use of language here: the likely scenario is that the cop wants to cover himself by claiming that the couple slammed the door and his hand just happened to go through the glass and his cop buddy is standing by him cause he doesn't want him to lose his job. However we can't 'know for a fact' that this is the case because it is possible that the husband was more violent in his self-defense than he claims and his neighbor buddy isn't entirely sure what happened but has been convinced that this guys story is the truth and thus will back him up.
Thelink on 21/8/2007 at 08:55
Free speech is not absolute. Flying the flag upside down (when there is no emergency) is the same as yelling out "FIRE! HELP!" in a theater or restaurant if there is no fire. You can't do it. That's known as disturbing the peace, which is a crime. His intentions in asking for ID were correct. If people wish to protest there are forms that they can file so they have proper documentation when something like this occurs.
That notwithstanding, it was grossly mishandled. The original officer is an idiot, a liar, and should be removed from his duties. (As well as anyone who covers for him after the fact.) The secondary ones who threatened to tase the wife were merely attempting to calm the situation down as they were responding to a distress call. They can't let someone who is obviously in an aggravated state near a fellow officer who (at first appearance) is trying to subdue a suspect.
failure2comply on 21/8/2007 at 08:58
Anyone else ever seen that Star Wars imperial troopers vid with the Bad boys soundtrack? This kinda reminds me of that.
