Yakoob on 1/4/2016 at 19:18
Faetal, that's a depressing story I heard of before... given your typical healthy dose of scientific skepticism, what's your take on it? Do you find it a believable indicator of how messed up our governing structures are, or just a bunch of hyperbolic conspiracy theories?
faetal on 2/4/2016 at 10:19
If you base global finance on return on investment and allow money to influence politics, then sooner or later, they're coming for everything. The full limit of what they leave will simply be there to generate their wealth. So basically, the end game will be something which allows enough people the ability to work for the minimum amount possible with the proviso that they spend it on things. The surplus population will probably end up on the other side of a wall somewhere a la every dystopian sci fi ever.
That's the worst case scenario of course.
Tony_Tarantula on 3/4/2016 at 19:16
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Faetal, that's a depressing story I heard of before... given your typical healthy dose of scientific skepticism, what's your take on it? Do you find it a believable indicator of how messed up our governing structures are, or just a bunch of hyperbolic conspiracy theories?
It's old news Yakoob. If you've been following the Eurozone news you already know that the EU has been actively subverting the democratic processes around Eastern Europe in order to protect bondholders.
In the article itself he also is talking about a very classic corporate governance issue. Most corporations face enormous pressure from capital markets and investors to have an entirely myopic focus:stock prices fluctuate significantly based on quarterly earnings, and many companies are willing to destroy their 5 or 10 year prospects to boost their results in the next quarter. The stupidity is immense. They divest underperforming but promising units, get rid of key real estate or infrastructure, engage in ill-advised mergers that ruin the company (e.g. Carly Fiorina).....and engage in ethically questionable conduct in regard to finance, reporting, safety or environmental impact.
Tony_Tarantula on 3/4/2016 at 19:26
Quote Posted by faetal
If you base global finance on return on investment and allow money to influence politics, then sooner or later, they're coming for
everything. The full limit of what they leave will simply be there to generate their wealth. So basically, the end game will be something which allows enough people the ability to work for the minimum amount possible with the proviso that they spend it on things. The surplus population will probably end up on the other side of a wall somewhere
a la every dystopian sci fi ever.
That's the worst case scenario of course.
Except that doesn't actually happen of course. The worst case scenario is much worse, where the fiscal system and rule of law collapse entirely and we enter a dark age.
Here's an open question. Can you identify what the Jewish zealot revolt, the American revolution, the French revolution, the Whiskey rebellions, the Boer war, the Bolshevik revolution, and the emergence of Adolf Hitler all have in common?
They seem completely separate but there is a fairly consistent sequence of events that led to each of those outcomes.
All that aside, you just did half my work for me and laid out a perfectly rational reason why the elite might feel the urge to try to reduce the number of people on the planet: they're viewed as unnecessary due to modern technological advancements and they can be discarded. I'm sure that's got nothing to do with how the "financiers" you're talking about and corporations consistently push an anti-nuclear family worldview and agenda.
faetal on 3/4/2016 at 23:31
The elite view other people as a resource to generate their wealth.
I don't have the time immediately to research those events, but can I hazard a guess that the preceding commonality involves de-regulation of the wealthy and blaming of everything on a minority demographic?
You don't even need to imagine a conspiracy to understand what's happening, it's simple maths - the only way to have predictable and continual return on investment is for a small group to control everything - otherwise it's too much like a casino - you can lose.
heywood on 5/4/2016 at 14:40
I think Tony's point is that the consolidation of power and wealth eventually leads to political revolution. It's a cycle which hasn't yet led to the perpetually dystopian end state you implied.
I do think a revolution of sorts is coming sooner or later. The question is whether the current democratic systems in the West are going to hold up long enough for it to be a gradual and mostly peaceful one, like when the "gilded age" in the US ended with the progressive movement. If not then we're probably headed to facism when much of the public loses faith in our system and gets behind some charismatic autocrat.
faetal on 5/4/2016 at 19:47
I agree, but I also think that the elite aren't stupid - they know their history. The mistakes of the Roman Empire etc won't be repeated verbatim - there'll be considerations taken to avoid the standard cycles if possible. Worse than this, if the revolution does happen, existing wealth will be sure to batten down that hatches and weather it. A revolution may oust 1% of the 1% but the rest will simply sit still, wait for it to blow over and then resume when it's safe, much like through history. Think how many revolutions old wealth have survived.
Yakoob on 5/4/2016 at 20:45
On a side note, being in Poland for almost a week now I've been catching up on the local news TV and newspapers. I can basically sum up the current political situation as TROLOLOLOLOLO. The new government is bonkers on the un-progressive, pro-religion side and it's gotten everyone around us (including Obama) worried. The only silver lining is the media at least stays fairly "rational" and most criticie the crap out of it (which may not last long if the governments new media laws come into fruition). Well, not going into specifics of the situation here but anyone let me know if they want me to elaborate.
Severian_Silk on 5/4/2016 at 21:48
Please do, Yakoob. I've only heard about the anti-abortion thing and how crazy it is.
Matthew on 5/4/2016 at 22:47
Yes, I'd like to hear more as well please.
