LarryG on 29/9/2009 at 02:17
Quote Posted by TBE
I don't know what monitor you were evaluating biker, but this one is clearly seen at angles. Even like really off it's center axis. The darks are excellent. It's not a cheap monitor. Dell is actually considered one of the better LCD makers. Look for the Ultra Sharp line of the size you want. They are good and clear.
I read somewhere that Dell uses two panel types, S-IPS and S-PVA, in the same model number of some monitors, so it may be that Bikerdude evaluated the S-PVA version and not the S-IPS version, and that you have the S-IPS?
heywood on 29/9/2009 at 04:01
I'm not sure spending the money for an IPS panel is worth it unless you're mad into photography. When I was looking for a monitor last year, I got psyched up about IPS panels. But when I actually compared a good 24" TN panel in person (HP w2408h) to a 24" IPS panel (Apple Cinema) and a 24" VA panel (Dell 2407WFP), I ended up liking the HP the best. It had the largest color gamut of the three and subjectively better looking colors (once adjusted to the right color temp). The higher end IPS displays can be calibrated to be more accurate, but unless you're doing professional imaging work for print, I can't imagine the need for that. If you're like most of us, you'll adjust brightness & contrast and maybe tweak the color temperature & balance, but you'll probably never fully calibrate it.
The other advantages of an IPS or VA panel - notably wider viewing angles and darker blacks - don't really come into play when using it as a computer monitor. The viewing angles on the HP were plenty wide enough, much better than a laptop TN panel. More importantly, wider viewing angles are wasted if you're always sitting in front of it. If you're going to watch movies from across the room, or you're going to have a group of people gathering around to play X-Box games, then I could understand wanting the best viewing angles. But for a computer monitor? I just can't see the point.
Also, I was worried about black levels, and compared to a CRT I have noticed a slight loss of shadow detail when watching a movie in a dark room. But I rarely watch movies on my computer and so far I haven't noticed this when playing a game.
One last point - when I was shopping last year, the 27" panels were noticeably worse in quality than the 24" panels. And like Bikerdude said, a lot more expensive for the same resolution. Also, a 26-28" panel is borderline too large to be usable from the typical viewing distance for a computer monitor. That size is really intended for mixed use - TV, console gaming, and maybe some computer use. I got a 24" because that was as small as I could go and still get 1920x1200. It's fine for gaming, but for productivity use it's maybe a bit too wide for best comfort. They now offer 21.5" panels in 1920x1080. If I were buying today, that's what I would go for. Then again, anything under 100 DPI tends to look pixelated to me. So YMMV.
bikerdude on 29/9/2009 at 09:22
Quote Posted by heywood
The other advantages of an IPS or VA panel - notably wider viewing angles and darker blacks - don't really come into play when using it as a computer monitor.
Ah but they do come into play if it has to be good for thief and based on data from a year ago S-IPS is the way to go. But as I said there will be newer better tech out there now so am having a look to see what I can recommend. So here are the requirements
1. native resolution of 1680*1050 or higher. (mainstream 3D gfx cards perform best at this res)
2. wide viewing angles, 170(H)/160(V) or better
3. good black levels, 0.03 cd/m2 or lower (CRT is 0.01)
4. good response times, g2g of less than 5ms (grey-2-grey)
5. good upscalling for lower resolutions (some monitors do this very badly)
7. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_LCD) LED backlit, preferably RGB LED matrix backlit. (maxtrix, can turn of leds on parts of the screen to give true black)
8. 80% or higher colour gamut
One monitor that's just been released that has all of the above is the (
http://benq.co.uk/products/LCD/index.cfm/product/975). The contrast ration of 5,000,000:1 seems a bit far fetched, but if the claim of matrix LED back light is correct and it works as I stated above then its possible. The price is $300-350/£170-200, available in octorber. Thats a a lot of tech for the price.
Im trying to find more info, preferably a review on it now... but there is bound to be more monitors like this one, but maybe not at that price.
:thumb:
Matthew on 29/9/2009 at 09:55
I have Dell's previous model, the 2407WFP, and I like it just fine. Don't have any problems with the black levels - I don't play Thief myself, but in other stealthy games or for night-time scenes it looks fine.
LarryG on 29/9/2009 at 13:04
Unfortunately, it looks like the BenQ is not sold in the US at this time, at least according to their shop finder. So that rules out that monitor for me.
heywood on 29/9/2009 at 14:10
Bikerdude,
Some of those specs look strange. Where did you get the 0.03 cd/m2 black level and 80% color gamut? And I still don't understand the viewing angle thing. Seriously, when do you ever view a computer monitor from so far off axis that 170 vs. 160 degrees would make a difference?
That said, the BenQ does look like a very nice monitor (it's probably a TN panel BTW). I would definitely go for something like that over a 22" 1680x1050. These days, I think you'd be short changing yourself with anything less than 1920x1080 (full HD) resolution in this size range.
Also, I think DCR is a pointless spec. On the Samsung LCD TVs with matrix backlighting, enabling dynamic contrast causes blockiness and black crush in dark areas. The BenQ has a regular contrast ratio of 1000:1, which is fine.
Edit: The BenQ is fairly new, which is probably why it's not for sale in the US yet. It's also advertised as the first LED backlit monitor in that size, so I doubt you'll find an equivalent competitor available at this time. There are a bunch of 21.5" 1920x1080 monitors on the market, but they're all conventionally backlit.
bikerdude on 29/9/2009 at 17:04
Quote Posted by heywood
* Some of those specs look strange. Where did you get the 0.03 cd/m2 black level and 80% color gamut?
* And I still don't understand the viewing angle thing. Seriously, when do you ever view a computer monitor from so far off axis that 170 vs. 160 degrees would make a difference?
* That said, the BenQ does look like a very nice monitor (it's probably a TN panel BTW).
* Also, I think DCR is a pointless spec. On the Samsung LCD TVs with matrix backlighting, enabling dynamic contrast causes blockiness and black crush in dark areas. The BenQ has a regular contrast ratio of 1000:1, which is fine.
* Edit: The BenQ is fairly new, which is probably why it's not for sale in the US yet. It's also advertised as the first LED backlit monitor in that size, so I doubt you'll find an equivalent competitor available at this time.
* There are a bunch of 21.5" 1920x1080 monitors on the market, but they're all conventionally backlit.
* That's a baseline I have set after doing a bunch of research and first hand experience, fyi a lot of monitors are still below that baseline.
* A lot of monitors claim to have a stated spec, but in practice its not the case. For example: a Dell 2007WFP I tested at the same time as the NEC claimed to have a 178/178 viewing angle, this was in fact bollox. Because even dead straight on, the monitor exhibited a polarized colour change along the sides of the screen. The NEC shows the same polarizing effect, but its not noticeable on dead straight and its much less pronounced.
* The benQ is very lickly a PVA based panel, as are most of their models.
* As I previously said, the DCR in most case's are bollox, but as this monitor comes with a RGB matrix LED backlight, this could be one of the few times its mostly true.
* Cant comment as I haven't had a proper look yet.
TBE on 30/9/2009 at 02:54
So you tested a Dell 2007WFP AND a Dell 2408WFP against your NEC?
bikerdude on 30/9/2009 at 18:29
Quote Posted by TBE
So you tested a Dell 2007WFP
AND a Dell 2408WFP against your NEC?
i tested the 2007 and 2407 and the NEC was better.
heywood on 30/9/2009 at 22:04
The Dell 2007WFP you tested sounds like a VA panel because of the color shifting you saw. Dell apparently switched that model from IPS to VA without changing the model number, which is why the price dropped compared to your NEC. That color shift, along with slow response times and input lag, are common complaints with VA panels.
I didn't care for the Dell 2407WFP either, and it had a green to red horizontal color gradient which I assume is the same thing you saw with the 2007WFP. I thought the HP w2408h with a TN panel (:eek:) had more consistent color across the screen and better contrast. I didn't like the glossy screen at first but got used to it. I also came to appreciate the wide color gamut for photo editing. I did not compare to the Dell 2408WFP. But I think the 2408WFP may be discontinued anyway. Their replacement is the u2410, which has an H-IPS panel and competes with the HP 2475w.
Incidentally, BenQ switched over from VA to TN panels a while back, which is why I doubt the BenQ is a VA panel. Also, the response time is too fast, the price too cheap, and the viewing angle specs are consistent with a TN panel.
