Please don't smoke... - by Strangeblue
theBlackman on 16/7/2006 at 01:30
A Pub IS NOT A PUBLIC SERVICE. It is a PRIVATE SERVICE available to the Public at large.
You may have noticed the many signs in the so-called Pubs. "We reserve the right to refuse..." That clearly shows it is a PRIVATE SERVICE.
A Public service, is the phone company, the gas company, the electric company, the metro transportation system etc.
Use a little intelligence. Be sure your brain is engaged before you dump the clutch to your mouth (in this case keyboard). Try thinking about the issue and not babbling about your personal agenda.
Yes, personal views are good, but they are ONLY YOURS and as such are not the be all and end all of a position or viewpoint. Irrational ranting from such a subjective view merely reinforces your lack of thought about the entire situation.
SD on 16/7/2006 at 01:41
Quote Posted by theBlackman
A Pub IS NOT A PUBLIC SERVICE. It is a PRIVATE SERVICE available to the Public at large.
You may have noticed the many signs in the so-called Pubs. "We reserve the right to refuse..." That clearly shows it is a PRIVATE SERVICE.
Public service. Service to the public. Same difference. You know you've lost the argument when you're trying to score points with semantics.
Quote:
Use a little intelligence. Be sure your brain is engaged before you dump the clutch to your mouth (in this case keyboard). Try thinking about the issue and not babbling about your personal agenda.
I have thought about the issue, and I concluded that people have a right not to be given diseases by thoughtless people like you. Controversial I know!
Whether you like it or not, people have a right to work under reasonable conditions. This isn't like when you were a lad and they were still sending sweeps up the chimney. We've moved on from that sort of thing. Workers are entitled to a safe, clean working environment - period. It's illogical and idiotic to make an exception for the bar and restaurant industry when we've already banned smoking in offices, schools, libraries, public transport.
Quote:
Yes, personal views are good, but they are ONLY YOURS and as such are not the be all and end all of a position or viewpoint.
Unluckily for you, my "personal view" is shared by governments all around the world. I'd suggest moving to a different planet if, indeed, it wasn't obvious that you're living on one already.
SlyFoxx on 16/7/2006 at 01:45
I think it comes down to this. Non-smokers have gotten 99% of what they want. But some won't rest until they get that last 1%.
Stronts you are living in some kind of fantasy world. I play music for a living and believe me I've played for pretty good $$$ in places where you might not want to have seat on the toilet. I had a choice...play and get paid and hold it....or sit home and play with myself. Well one pays the bills the other does not. Should I apply for unemployment that week because of a dirty toilet?
Your basic level of hygiene argument is a simple minded attempt to take an argument to some extreme level. Piles of human feces and urine fermenting into God knows what is a far cry from a little smoke hanging in the air.
SD on 16/7/2006 at 01:50
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
Piles of human feces and urine fermenting into God knows what is a far cry from a little smoke hanging in the air.
Damn straight it is. Piss and shit in the air won't kill you.
theBlackman on 16/7/2006 at 01:51
Service to the public is not the same. A service offered to any who want to purchase goods, or sevices is a private business that allows anyone to buy, IF THEY CHOOSE TO, and is controlled by the owner. Who, may, within the law choose to NOT SELL to individuals.
As for semantics, there is a reason words with specific meaning are used in documents and conversations and the reason phrases are couched in specific forms.
I won't comment on your remarks about my actions in public because you know not whereof you speak.
I said that inconsiderate acts were common place, but said nothing about my own actions in the circumstances.
As far as inconsiderate goes, you are a good example. You don't say "hey I disagree, but you are free to voice your opinion."
The manner of your responses show "Screw you I'm right and you (whoever) are not even to be acknowledged as having said anything."
And as usual, you don't really read what people are saying. Why should you? Your mind is made up. And, unfortunately, CLOSED.
Convict on 16/7/2006 at 02:07
Quote Posted by TheGreatGodPan
With regards to rights, Stronts, you and I have a very different conception of them. I think a bar/restaurant is the property of the owner and it is their say what is and is not permitted. Just as I don't have any "right" to tell you what to do in your house, you don't have any "right" to tell the owner what goes on at his place. Even if every other restaurant is closed, your fridge is cleaned out and your stomach is groaning, nobody else is obligated to accomodate you. As it happens, there are places where the owners of their own free will prohibit smoking, because they value the appreciation of people who dislike smoke more than the disgruntlement of smokers. Smokers aren't special enough to insist that their "right" to smoke in such a place be upheld against the wishes of others any more than anybody else has the "right" to demand the reverse in a different place.
Quote Posted by TheBlackman
You may have noticed the many signs in the so-called Pubs. "We reserve the right to refuse..." That clearly shows it is a PRIVATE SERVICE.
Does the owner of the bar have the right not to serve homosexuals?
jprobs on 16/7/2006 at 02:29
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
Public service. Service to the public. Same difference. You know you've lost the argument when you're trying to score points with semantics
And you have never split hairs on an argument....... Gimme a break :tsktsk:
mopgoblin on 16/7/2006 at 02:39
Quote Posted by theBlackman
If it pains you so much, buy a keg, and you and your mates can drink in your own living room. A Pub is a PUBLIC PLACE, you are not obligated to go there, to drink there, or to stay there. If you do so without duress, you HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO.
Therefore smokers have no right to complain if there's a law banning smoking in pubs, right?
SubJeff on 16/7/2006 at 02:43
Yeah, you've messed up tBM. Businesses have to conform to certain standards. Anywhere serving food will be subject to governemnt inpections and licencing laws. In fact all buildings that are used for any commericial purpose, just about, will have to conform to some standards. And often those will be health and safety standards in some respect. This bs about it being a PRIVATE SERVICE is just that. BS. Any vendor has to provide a whole gamut of proof that he or she is operating within the law. You seem to have forgotten this.
If the law decrees that banning one group of people from harming another group of people's health there is nothing wrong with that. I'd be happy about it from a personal and proffessional point of view.
And you totally missed what I was asking about medical treatment and I can't be bothered to try and explain.
theBlackman on 16/7/2006 at 02:52
I did not say anything about the smokers right to complain or not. If you care to review what I said, paraphrased it says, that I have the choice to go elsewhere if a smoking ban is there or to OBEY it when I am there.
That the owner has the choice of what product to sell, what service to give, what rules to impose in his or her establishment.
As usual you are putting words in the mouths of others to reinforce your view.
You have the right to express an opinion, espouse a way of life, or a god, and live the way you want as long as you don't endanger others. But you have no right to impose those criteria on others.
Unless you are locked in a room with no exit, you are not being endangered by a smoker. You have the freedom to remove yourself from that situation. If you are waiting for a bus, you can catch the next one. Granted, you may argue you'll be late for an appointment, if so, you have a few choices, not the least of which is to have the balls to ask the violator to not smoke.
The only right you have is to choose your own path and follow it. You further have the right, within limits to voice your ideas and attempt to convince others to follow your lead. But never the right to force them to do so.
Nothing in my posts has diminished the need for establishments to follow rules. The basis of our society is based on that.
No one said that hygiene, food prep or other such are not a needed consideration, except you, that is.
