Please ask your basic (newbie) questions in here. - by scumble
Beleg Cúthalion on 27/11/2007 at 12:12
I just had a rather milky idea of several little surfaces between the trees/smeshes with the bf_blank (i.e. skybox) texture on them. So you never see the hole sky/horizon around the forest but only little windows where the objects won't do. But well, possible that this is only a thought of an idea that could never work. :erm:
Another thing; str8g8, has your idea behind the autumn-like tree in The Bridge ever been part of the snowfall discussion? I though one could use that maybe in a city mission when the open-air areas were small and separated from each other.
str8g8 on 28/11/2007 at 15:28
I think what your describing would work as well, it would add yet another layer (through the bsp to the skybox).
Weather effects are something I looked at for a while, in particular rain. I had a particle system attached to Garrett that followed him round. The advantage to this is that the density of particles is always concentrated around the player. The problem is going under runnels, into buildings etc. Also, it is not possible to do shiny\wet surfaces in flesh (at least not with normal maps).
You could do it in the way you describe but it mean a lot more particles at any one time, and that would effect performance.
Snow would look really nice though. :thumb:
CrackedGear on 28/11/2007 at 21:01
Quote Posted by str8g8
I think what your describing would work as well, it would add yet another layer (through the bsp to the skybox).
Weather effects are something I looked at for a while, in particular rain. I had a particle system attached to Garrett that followed him round. The advantage to this is that the density of particles is always concentrated around the player. The problem is going under runnels, into buildings etc. Also, it is not possible to do shiny\wet surfaces in flesh (at least not with normal maps).
You could do it in the way you describe but it mean a lot more particles at any one time, and that would effect performance.
Snow would look really nice though. :thumb:
I'd been experimenting with rain as well and had some of the same disappointments, mostly about wet surfaces. I haven't been following the matlib discussion, but maybe something could be done there, up the alpha or something.
The rain method you describe could work similar to the way I made the light spell. You have the particle emitter attached to garrett, and you include several volumes around the map inside and under bridges and whatever. the volumes have a script to trigger the emitter bOutofWorld when breached.
now I have something to play with today.
Judith on 30/11/2007 at 01:44
Forest isn't a problem if but forest blocking a path is. The only thing coming to my mind is a set of trees with tight spaces between them (in 2 rows), and a fake dense forest texture behind them plus a invisible collision hull right behind the first row. A skybox with forest background is a disaster, in terms of design and performance-wise approach.
Generally much better is to make a forest situated in a valley or something like that. Try to make some glades and paths surrounded by fairly high hills (256, 320, 384, 512 and higher) or rock/sand cliffs. This gives you to put the plants and trees the way you want, without putting the most of them at the edges of the location, trying to cover the void behind.
CrackedGear on 30/11/2007 at 02:04
Quote Posted by Judith
Forest isn't a problem if but forest blocking a path is. The only thing coming to my mind is a set of trees with tight spaces between them (in 2 rows), and a fake dense forest texture behind them plus a invisible collision hull right behind the first row. A skybox with forest background is a disaster, in terms of design and performance-wise approach.
Generally much better is to make a forest situated in a valley or something like that. Try to make some glades and paths surrounded by fairly high hills (256, 320, 384, 512 and higher) or rock/sand cliffs. This gives you to put the plants and trees the way you want, without putting the most of them at the edges of the location, trying to cover the void behind.
well I've got the invisible collision hulls, and part of the map is in a valley, so that all mostly works. I have no idea what to use for a dense forest texture though.
str8g8 on 30/11/2007 at 13:25
You will have to get your paint brush out ;) I would doubt you would find anything suitable anywhere on the net, maybe some free modders textures of something.
It needs to be 512 or 1024 and tile horizontally and show a line of trees from the root to the top. The top or canopy of the texture could be alpha'd I think, possibly even the gaps between the trees, though this would mean you would see through to the skydome, again, this needn't be a disaster (as Judith imagines) if handled right. Darkness (and fog) is you friend. These texture(s) could be virtually silhouettes. All that's needed is an impression.
Judith on 30/11/2007 at 14:19
I meant that putting a lot of trees (SM's in general) in your skybox might have been a disaster, as skybox is always rendered and it decreases overall performance. But if the skybox was just a dome with stars and clouds - ok, then the texture would have to be semi/alpha in the canopy part, that's true :) One needs to remember that it has to be seamless horizontally, and it would be wise to create a few versions of it, in order to avoid the humdrum.
Never tried this, but it sounds interestng. I always did the trick with the high hills or cliffs :angel:
str8g8 on 30/11/2007 at 14:34
Quote:
But if the skybox was just a dome with stars and clouds
Yes, but also the skyzone could contain a cylinder with the same tree wall texture. :)
We used to call these things tree walls, the texture would be a tree wall texture etc.
The skyzone is always rendered, so filling it with mesh trees is bad, as Judith points out.
The advantage of the skyzone (and why you bother to have one at all) is that it doesn't have to z-sort with the rest of the scene. Stuff in the skyzone gets rendered, then the rest of the level gets rendered over the top of it. The engine doesn't have to test whether something in the skyzone is in front of something in the level because it knows it will always be behind).
Really skyzones are amazing things - very powerful when you get your head around the possibilities. :thumb:
Judith on 30/11/2007 at 16:07
Quote:
Yes, but also the skyzone could contain a cylinder with the same tree wall texture.
Right, I didn't think about that :) But it makes a situation a bit tricky, IMO: those background trees won't be scaled up/down, as you approach/move away from them, am I right? Skybox is static, regardless of player movement, so our little Builder Apprentice must assume some kind of visual scale, and a proper viewing angle, always obscured by some meshes/bsp to some extent. Otherwise it will all look weird and artificial ;)
Beleg Cúthalion on 30/11/2007 at 21:01
Referring to your screenshots, Judith; I've tried to find your/the thread about this little path you made on green grass, but I didn't know I had to look for alpha textures. Is everything explained there so that I can have a look when I should need it or would you add something more to it? Until now I'm fine with everything I need, but just in case...
