Cobra on 14/11/2007 at 11:29
Yes, but AK47's use 7.62R ammo, not 7.62x51, which used to be the nato standard for a while before 'modern' 5.56 ammo (and, if I recall the russian 7.62 is considerably less powerful than its western counterpart.) 7.62x51 is pretty insane for fully automatic use (the various guns which had that were pretty uncontrollable), let alone trying to fit it into something as teeny as the DX assault rifle model. It is pretty wierd, to be frank. However, wasn't it established the reason the AR had burst was more for computing efficacy than any game-world based decision? I recall seeing that TNM seems to have their AR firing as most guns do in FPS games.
It has hardly spoilt my enjoyment of DX, but the assualt rifle has always bugged me - besides the accursed burst feature, it should do more damage per hit than a pistol, not substantially less. And the sound is pretty weedy too. I do wish someone would mod it so it either gave something suitably strange like huge recoil and bigger damage, or just changed the weapon into something smaller and renamed the ammunition so it vaguely makes sense why it does less damage than a pistol (automatic pea-shooter? ;)) It is also a little strange how everyone, all over the world, uses the same weapons - although considering the hyperconglomeration of everything, that isn't so bad - I tend to use pistols anyway for my playthoughs now, so I guess I'll shut up.
Regards
heywood on 14/11/2007 at 17:36
Quote Posted by DaveW
Although, suprisingly, the most commonly used assault rifle around the world is fully automatic in 7.62mm! Also the good thing about fully automatic is that it's there if you need it.
No, the most commonly used assault rifle is the AK-74 (and variants) which fire 5.45mm rounds.
DaveW on 14/11/2007 at 21:50
Quote Posted by heywood
No, the most commonly used assault rifle is the AK-74 (and variants) which fire 5.45mm rounds.
Nope, sorry, it's the original (
http://www.controlarms.org/find_out_more/reports/AK_47.pdf) AK-
47.
Quote:
However, wasn't it established the reason the AR had burst was more for computing efficacy than any game-world based decision?
There's fully automatic weapons in the original Unreal - the minigun, stinger etc. - there's no reason they couldn't have done it in Deus Ex.
heywood on 14/11/2007 at 23:43
Kalashnikov's are the most common, but Kalashnikov != AK-47. The article you quoted readily mixes the two as if they refer to the same thing, but they don't. Kalashnikov refers to any derivative of the Mikhail Kalashnikov designs: AK-47, AK-74, and AK-100, etc. Of the Kalashnikovs, the AK-74 is the most common, because it has been the primary weapon of the former Soviet countries since the 1970s, and has been sold to all the other military forces who buy their equipment from Russia. The AK-47 may be more popular among guerilla groups, Afghani tribesmen, and the like. But the numbers pale in comparison to the standing armies of the world.
DaveW on 15/11/2007 at 20:26
The point still stands that it is the most common, and even if it wasn't, you've said that the Kalashnikov family of weapons are the most common - all of which are automatic to the best of my understanding. And if you look around the world, most armies use fully automatic weapons a lot. Look at some of the major armies in the world - Britain has the SA80 (fully automatic), France has the FAMAS (fully automatic), Russia has whatever model Kalashnikov (fully automatic), even China has the QBZ-95... although that isn't automatic.
Only joking, it is.
Papy on 16/11/2007 at 07:03
I'm not an expert on this subject, but, as someone who did his two years of military service, I can say that using an assault rifle on the fully automatic setting is really, really dumb. It's cool, but dumb. Although I'll agree most assault rifles do have an automatic setting, they are simply not meant to be used. You'll empty your clip in less than 2 seconds and you'll jam your rifle pretty fast. Maybe you'll be able to go through your first clip, but if you don't let your rifle cool down after that, I doubt you'll be very successful with the following ones. Basically, it's great if you're suicidal, but otherwise it's something to avoid.
DaveW on 16/11/2007 at 19:29
Plenty of weapons, such as the Ultimax 100, are perfectly capable of being fired in automatic without jamming. The AK-47 is pretty hard to break, too. The choice is there for a reason, and sometimes it's far from suicidal but rather used in CQB increasing the adaptability of the weapon. At any rate, don't forget what this was actually about. I was saying that no widely adopted rifle would go backwards and be limited to burst fire.
Deus_Ex_Fan on 25/11/2007 at 10:46
Quote Posted by DaveW
Plenty of weapons, such as the Ultimax 100, are perfectly capable of being fired in automatic without jamming. The AK-47 is pretty hard to break, too. The choice is there for a reason, and sometimes it's far from suicidal but rather used in CQB increasing the adaptability of the weapon. At any rate, don't forget what this was actually about. I was saying that no widely adopted rifle would go backwards and be limited to burst fire.
The main issues for not using automatic fire is: a) conservation of ammo; b) accuracy. No unit would be comprised of just full automatic weapons, as they eat lead --
they didn't call the M-60 a "pig" for nothing -- and bog down the straight legs.
My dad was a Korean and Vietnam combat infantry/signal man. He remembers the M1, M14 and the M16. He sure didn't get his Bronze star taking out a North Korean machinegun nest pinning down his squad with a M1 on full auto -- he'd never hit the target that way. It's semi or burst, and leave the full machineguns (BAR/.50/M-60) to do their jobs, unless you must lay suppressive fire down for emergencies.
I personally prefer semi over burst even. As I'll know exactly how much I'm shooting, and practicing controlled fire. In Deus Ex, on the Warehouse level, I literally wiped all of the baddies (including
through the COM building) from the roof at the farthest end, and finished with other 90 7.62mm rounds left. Hate using too much ammo.
BTW, Semper Fi. ;)
DaveW on 25/11/2007 at 12:01
Quote:
No unit would be comprised of just full automatic weapons
Neither would they be comprised of just burst fire weapons. Therefore, the best solution is a weapon with Auto/Burst fire selection, if you want a "one size fits all" assault rifle - as it is useful in CQB as well as efficient in other forms of combat.
