Pictures from South Ossetia War

Rogue Keeper on 27/8/2008 at 07:12

Quote Posted by TTK12G3

Quit slapping "democratic" in front of "Georgia". Back in 2007, Georgian police smashed up protesters a good bit. Also, your friend Badri Patarkatsishvili called Georgia's government a fascist regime.

Yes, well, I think SD has pretty much failed in this topic as an objective judge of democracy and statesmanship, but he'd make a good hirable advocate, stimulating feelings of the jury. Demagogy is a good business.

SD on 27/8/2008 at 07:36

Quote Posted by TTK12G3

Quote Posted by BR796164

Good grief. Look, nobody's claimed that Georgia is perfect. But it's a far more democratic place than Russia, and it wants to stay that way. Saakashvili certainly has more democratic legitimacy over South Ossetia and Abkhazia than Medvedev does.

Incidentally, Saakashvili did claim at the time that the demonstrations TTKWhatever mentions were incited by the Russians. People scoffed at him then, but I don't think anyone's laughing now.

(http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=9bc4033e-c412-426c-9907-78d4e5d72abf) Paul Berman and (http://dissentmagazine.org/online.php?id=123) Michael Walzer have had worthwhile commentary to make on the conflict in the past few days.

Rogue Keeper on 27/8/2008 at 07:46

Quote Posted by SD

Saakashvili certainly has more democratic legitimacy over South Ossetia and Abkhazia than Medvedev does.

Said who?

SD on 27/8/2008 at 07:51

People who believe in international law, specifically that pertaining to territorial integrity, and people who believe freedom is better than despotism, mainly.

quinch on 27/8/2008 at 07:54

These days democracy means to do what ever the West says.

Rogue Keeper on 27/8/2008 at 08:10

Quote Posted by SD

People who believe in international law, specifically that pertaining to territorial integrity, and people who believe freedom is better than despotism, mainly.

People who believe in international law acknowledged that Russia's historical interests in South Ossetia and Abkhazia are legitimate and allowed presence of Russian army there. People in these territories who believe in freedom have decided they want to be independent on Georgia long time ago.

DEMOCRACY is RULE OF THE PEOPLE. What you defend here as "democracy" is AUTHORITARIAN POWER of your chosen corrupted public servant who doesn't even represent interests of people living in the disputed territories in question, what more, he murders them with rockets. Basically all your 'argumentation' is circling around the emotional sweetspot that if people see big boy slapping a little boy, they instinctively start defending the little boy and condemning the big boy, not bothered by the idea to try to examine deeper circumstances of the conflict and what led the big boy to slap the little boy in the first place. Well as most people in jury are legal and historical idiots, they will go for your sentimental version.

You really look like you're on Saakashvili's (or by extension US DOS') payroll if you excuse 14 hours long destruction of civilian city with values of "freedom", "international law" or "democracy".

So how about that Munich Pact?

242 on 27/8/2008 at 08:39

Quote Posted by quinch

These days democracy means to do what ever the West says.

From my country it looks like these days democracy means to do what ever Kremlin says.

clearing on 27/8/2008 at 09:05

Quote Posted by 242

From my country

Orange Ukraine?
242, again and again, you ignore completely the very fact that Russia to all intents and purposes is a NEW country (no USSR!).

clearing on 27/8/2008 at 09:33

242, read this:

Quote:

This South Ossetia situation set me off to search for more truth to back up my intuition of what happened there. From what I saw myself as the news was broken here, I immediately understood it to be the fault of Georgia and that view hasn't changed. Yet what I saw and heard once the U.S. President got out of bed made me wonder WTF I am doing in my own country and suffering a veil of democracy which doesn't exist with leaders who tell lies, threaten, use double standards, think they can police the world and boss other countries about, behave recklessly with diplomacy, make noises of war, insult the Russian President as if he's thick, and basically ignore any fault of our own along with the people's own opinions.

I've read much about the attempts its since made to deliver a peaceful world to humanity and I note the Democratic Governor of New Mexico recognises these attempts and that he blames U.S. Foreign Policy for failing to gain agreements with Russia.

Now I'm at the stage of wondering what life I've even been leading and why I've trusted anything I've heard, and wishing I'd been born a Russian for god sake.

People might ask why ?

The west is controlled by economists.
It's all about MONEY.
Politicians and entire countries are in fear of making decisions which destabalize their economy.
Western economies work on the plan of Milton Friedman the U.S. Economist and his "Monetarist Policies" require constant "Growth" [ enlarged trading areas ], in order to survive.

I have a degree of understanding of economics so I do know what I'm talking about when I say "Social Economics" is different to "monetarism" ( which is what we have now ).

Prior to this we had social economics which puts people first.
Monetarism is a "Free Market" for capitalsim and people are not in the equation, hence a lack of democracy to stop it.

The growth - or enlargement - is ESSENTIAL to sustain the economy under a monetarist system. Hence the west developed something of a catchword to confuse us to think it was all inevitable when clearly it isn't.

The word ? - GLOBALIZATION.

They've engineered a word which has a meaning for ANY issue they care to mention and no-one can combat the word for it sounds inevitable.

Global trade.
Global security.
Global warming.
Global politics.

There's a "Global Dimension" to every issue you care to mention but all it means is WE [ the western superpower ], are on the march to impose a New World Global Order on to you and there's nothing people can do about it because we have no rights or democracy !!!

So it goes that Russia doesn't agree.
Russia protects its citizens and doesn't like the NWO - Mr Medvedev said so on Russia Today.

I'm reading between his lines and I understand that he understands what I am saying is true.

Yet to stop the NWO which stems from America and is within Europe's own systems under the Maastricht Treaty, the entire monetary systems in the west would have to change - revert back to social economics and if that happened then America would slide economically and its economy which is built on money generated from debt of others and trade with Europe which is built on debt and foreign investment mainly from America, would die.

I say to all Russian's to wake up to this please and do some research on the different economic systems I'm talking about here because the political arguments being made now are down to that reason alone - America and the west have no choice but to enlarge their trading areas and that means developing into Russian territory by acceptance of Russia or by force. This is why the U.S. is provoking Russia I'm sure of it, and the only outcome if Russia doesn't accept it is to escalate the provocation and the worst thing can happen is that we people who are unaware of the reasons are at war.

What else can I say other than I feel I'm on the wrong facking side in this and I can do nothing to change it?

242 on 27/8/2008 at 09:38

Quote Posted by clearing

Orange Ukraine?

You call all who doesn't support Kremlin orange. If you so like color differentiation and honestly believe that everyone who doesn't support Russia is USA's pawn, then I will be orange and USA's pawn for you, I like the colour, so be it. BTW, most of my friends are orange too by your definition because they don't support Kremlin, and I'm from Eastern Ukraine. We have half of the country of "USA's pawns", they are all "dumb" and "enemies", do you feel better now?

Quote:

242, again and again, you ignore completely the very fact that Russia to all intents and purposes is a NEW country (no USSR!).

Me? I never said that, I clearly stated that it's many your citizens who associate Russia with USSR (mainly imperialists and monarchists), that's why they hate Gorbachov, who as they think disrupted their power and let go their territories.