dreamcatcher on 25/8/2008 at 21:26
Quote Posted by SD
I don't recall Georgia attacking any of its neighbours before.
I remember the Soviets massacring Georgians in 1989, but I can't recall aggression the other way.
Do you really? You must be old enough to have gained some common sense then. Please do elaborate:
Firstly, what are you on about?
Secondly, do you know how Georgia obtained its independence from Russia? That's right, by staging a referendum with an overwhelming vote count for it. Guess what South Ossetia did when Georgia broke away from Russia. Yes, it staged a referendum deciding overwhelmingly it did not wish any part of it, citing historically tense relations between Georgian and Ossetian peoples.
242 on 25/8/2008 at 21:29
Quote Posted by dreamcatcher
do you know how Georgia obtained its independence from Russia?
You have no idea what you are talking about (c) :)
Learn what is Russia, what was Soviet Union, how it was created, and how it ceased its existence.
dreamcatcher on 25/8/2008 at 21:41
Quote Posted by 242
You have no idea what you are talking about (c) :)
Learn what is Russia, what was Soviet Union, how it was created, and how it ceased its existence.
Likewise, learn how Georgia came to be part of tsarist Russia in the seventeen hundreds. If one can declare independence after some hundreds of years spent as part of an empire, why begrudge S. Ossetia a shot at independence when it only became a part of Georgia a few decades ago.
242 on 25/8/2008 at 22:02
Quote Posted by dreamcatcher
Likewise, learn how Georgia came to be part of tsarist Russia in the seventeen hundreds.
Now that's some serious logic.
If we go so far, lets go to ten hundreds. What was Russia? Was there Moscow back then?
By your logic I may claim that Russia obtained its independence from Ukraine (Kievan Russia) and Ukraine can claim Russia's territories.
PS: Are you from ex-USSR? You know a way too much about these matters for Westerner. Also, your attitude gives away a person who isn't neutral.
TTK12G3 on 25/8/2008 at 22:09
Quote Posted by SD
Since you evidently missed my response to more or less the same idiotic commentary earlier in the thread...
Quote Posted by dreamcatcher
Georgia has been trying to wipe out Ossetian population one way or another since the early nineties, that was the reason the peacekeepers were stationed there to begin with.
I thought the above statement more or less addressed what I was thinking. I probably should have addressed this, but you seem to be too busy portraying Georgia as a nation of peace and stability anyway. There was fighting in the area before the conflict, but destroying a town really pushed things beyond what was considered acceptable aggression.
Quote Posted by 242
Now that's some serious logic...
You evaded his assertion.
242 on 25/8/2008 at 22:19
Quote Posted by TTK12G3
You evaded his assertion.
I clearly gave a cue that his assertion was a way to nowhere.
PS: haven't you by chance some relation to Russia or ex-USSR? The reasons I ask are the same I mentioned when I was asking dreamcatcher.
TTK12G3 on 25/8/2008 at 22:33
Well, your assertion that all Russian mass media and citizens are a single solid block behind the government is untrue. Your assertion that Russia under Yeltsin was a political paradise is hilarious.
242 on 25/8/2008 at 22:37
Quote Posted by TTK12G3
Well, your assertion that all Russian mass media and citizens are a single solid block behind the government is untrue. Your assertion that Russia under Yeltsin was a political paradise is
hilarious.
Where I wrote that Russia under Yeltsin was a political
paradise? Freedom of mass media and diversity of people's opinions about political issues were just incomparable with what they have now. I saw it with my own eyes, as I watched many Russian political programs and shows, and they weren't aggressive back then. Yeltsin hold his power with death grip, he created very special, soviet type of financial oligarhy who catered his needs, but he could listen critique.
Oh, and now I'm sure you have some relation to Russia or ex-USSR.
TTK12G3 on 25/8/2008 at 22:51
Quote Posted by 242
Where I wrote that Russia under Yeltsin was a political
paradise? Freedom of mass media and diversity of people's opinions about political issues were just incomparable with what they have now. I saw it with my own eyes, as I watched many Russian political programs and shows, and they weren't aggressive back then.
Oh, and now I'm sure you have some relation to Russia or ex-USSR.
Real political freedom in a place where media spots are traded for state assets is impossible.
I'm not sure what you mean by "aggressive". Political programs are by nature "aggressive".
dreamcatcher on 25/8/2008 at 23:16
Quote Posted by 242
You know a way too much about these matters for Westerner. Also, your attitude gives away a person who isn't neutral.
Actually, I don't know nearly enough for you to say that, but hopefully just enough to form a somewhat educated opinion on the matter at hand. I have been trying to learn about the history of the region since the conflict has begun. And it hasn't been a pretty picture for either side.
I also am trying to work out why the news I'm getting from various independent news sources and the story that the main stream media is feeding us don't jibe. I try to parse the information I get objectively. But, just as you keep referring to hypocrisy from your POV, I see enormous hypocrisy abound when this war is presented to us vis-a-vis our own little iron fist adventure around the globe.
BTW, the war is over, let us see if Russia holds its promise to make nice and bugger off, or if it tries to entrench further, thus proving its critics right. Until some new progress has been made I can make no further judgement on the matter.
