SubJeff on 25/8/2008 at 19:31
Because the thought that Europeans or the Russians have a strong history of sorting things out with diplomacy and not tanks is laughable.
242 on 25/8/2008 at 19:37
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Seriously guys.
Did you read previous pages? :p Hypocricy was mentioned many times. From my point of view hypocricy of Russia is tenfold more dense in this given case.
BTW, in the mean time Russian parliament recognized independence of S. Ossetia. Nice. It just doesn't respect international laws, UN, territorial integrity of its neighbourhoods and its neighbourhoods overall. No respect.
dreamcatcher on 25/8/2008 at 19:43
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Because the thought that Europeans or the Russians have a strong history of sorting things out with diplomacy and not tanks is laughable.
Specifically Ukrainian and Russian peoples have coexisted interdependently and in relative peace for hundreds of years.
SD on 25/8/2008 at 20:03
Quote Posted by dreamcatcher
which part of "Georgia initiated this war by bombarding the city Tskhinval with long-range artillery, then sending in tanks killing civilians and Russian peacekeepers" don't you understand?
And what part of "Russia has been funding separatists for years, and has been deliberately stoking up tensions with Georgia for months to provoke them into military action" don't
you understand? Georgia isn't going to fire on South Ossetia without a bloody good reason, and that reason was an imminent attack on Georgian villages by Ossetian terrorists.
Also, I feel I ought to point out to anyone who was venturing down the "America hypocrisy" line of argument that this Georgia situation isn't analogous to the Iraq one. America was invading and deposing a murderous dictatorship with a track record of hostility to its neighbours. Russia has invaded and destabilised an increasingly progressive democracy with no such history of aggression.
dreamcatcher on 25/8/2008 at 20:20
Quote Posted by SD
America
invaded a sovereign country, which neither threatened, nor posed any immediate threat to anyone since it was neutered during Desert Storm and throughout the years of sanctions. Invaded it under false pretenses, with forged intelligence and without a UN mandate. Forced its way into the part of the world it has nothing to do with, except sating own increasingly out-of-control appetite for oil.there, fixed it for you. ;)
242 on 25/8/2008 at 20:23
Quote Posted by dreamcatcher
The hawks on this side of the ocean keep droning on about the Russian aggression on Georgia, but say nothing of what triggered the incursion. Corporate media serves lies and half-truths and the masses are only too happy to eat it up.
Man, you just don't imagine how free and independent your mass media are compared with Russian's. It's like Sun and Moon. It's very illustrative that you criticize your country (I assume you're American since "on this side of the ocean") and protect Russia, and basically all you have very different opinions. You're healthy society in this regard.
I already said this but I'll repeat again because I myself see this with my own eyes for many years already. You'll find virtually NO ONE Russian on Russian forums, TV, newspapers etc. (at least more or less popular and known mass media) who would deem Russia's foreign policy too combative, protest against their government, or post pictures similar to what posted Subjective Effect. All mass media and citizens always agree with Kremlin regarding foreign and internal policy, it's like in China. Believe me. Moreover, they start to humiliate those who venture to say something they don't like.
Russians had political freedom when Yeltsin was President, now it's quite another matter.
Quote:
Now, unless Ukraine plans to attack the RF Navy stationed on the Black Sea until 2017, what exactly is your worry about Russia, I thought you guys could always resolve your differences via diplomacy, not tanks.
We would love it, but we almost always encounter disregard of any our request. And what is my worry? After S.Ossetia I think Russia may switch to Crimea. In any case, we permanently have strained relations with Russia. As well as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Georgia, Moldavia, Poland have, even Belarus, despite it claims they are best friends.
PS: BTW, aren't you from ex-USSR by chance?
dreamcatcher on 25/8/2008 at 20:29
Quote Posted by SD
America was invading and deposing a murderous dictatorship with a track record of hostility to its neighbours.
Russia has invaded and destabilised an increasingly progressive democracy with no such history of aggression.Georgia has been trying to wipe out Ossetian population one way or another since the early nineties, that was the reason the peacekeepers were stationed there to begin with.
TTK12G3 on 25/8/2008 at 20:42
Quote Posted by SD
Russia has invaded and destabilised an increasingly progressive democracy with no such history of aggression.
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
242 on 25/8/2008 at 20:57
Quote Posted by TTK12G3
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
Why?
Quote:
Russia has invaded and destabilised an increasingly progressive democracy with no such history of aggression.
is quite correct. Georgia is increasingly progressive democracy, no perfect, but progressive. And it doesn't have history of aggression against Russia or any other country.
SD on 25/8/2008 at 21:08
Quote Posted by TTK12G3
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
Since you evidently missed my response to more or less the same idiotic commentary earlier in the thread, here it is again:
Quote Posted by SD
Why don't you point out some of the faults then instead of sitting there grumbling like a retard
Let me help you by dissecting what I wrote, and then you can tell me which bits I've got wrong:
Quote Posted by SD
Russia has invadedRussia invaded Georgia - indubitably correct.
Quote Posted by SD
and destabilisedRussia has fostered tension in Ossetia by giving Russian passports to Ossetians, many Georgians are dead and Russia has openly called for Saakashvili's resignation - I'd say that counts as destabilisation in anyone's book.
Quote Posted by SD
an increasingly progressive democracyI don't think there's any doubt that Georgia is a more democratic nation than it was 10 years ago, and that its people enjoy more freedoms. Feel free to counter this.
Quote Posted by SD
with no such history of aggressionI don't recall Georgia attacking any of its neighbours before. I remember the Soviets massacring Georgians in 1989, but I can't recall aggression the other way.
