LoucMachine on 11/10/2013 at 23:32
What is sad, The Shroud, is that you are right and EM and any AAA dev will never listen to you...
''SR: If we decided to backpedal and add in “taffer” because a bunch of people wanted it, we’d get another complaint the next day from someone else saying, “Why stay stuck in the past?”
NO, WTF ??? I understand that statement in many cases, but in this case NO... just NO !!! you ll never hear someone complain because you used a word that is part of the lore instead of an F-bomb... and if someone really dont know what it is he can google, and this will be part of the experience cuz at the same time he will read and learn alot more from the lore than what he already knows. As the ''trials and errors'' process is part of playing a game too... and ITS FUN !!! WTF ???
It makes me sad cuz the future of thief games is in a mod... Witch is awesome btw its a great work from people who did it... but its still fan made only, so storywise its not better than T4 :/
Springheel on 11/10/2013 at 23:43
Quote:
''SR: If we decided to backpedal and add in “taffer” because a bunch of people wanted it, we’d get another complaint the next day from someone else saying, “Why stay stuck in the past?”
Yeah, from the same people who are bunny-hopping all over the levels, no doubt.
I can't help wondering if they actually believe BS like this.
demagogue on 12/10/2013 at 01:10
On the plus side, I'm happy to see all the wards from the previous games returning. We may be able to continue the Mapping Project for this edition after all -- if they don't completely invert things and they give us enough to work with. That would give me at least something to actually look forward to, since making a consistent map is kind of an interesting meta-game in its own right.
For the rest of it, you all are doing a fine job of deconstructing it.
Goldmoon Dawn on 12/10/2013 at 01:33
If this game doesnt feature time travel, then it will hardly be a credible source for anything related to previous canon of the Thief series itself. If the map is so strict in this re-imagined Thief, then why has everything else changed, other than the obvious goal of designing the best selling game possible for the current demographic while discarding the classic game design ideals that Looking Glass Studios really punched up and brought to the forefront their games.
sNeaksieGarrett on 12/10/2013 at 02:11
Quote Posted by Chade
No, the reason I quoted those bits of the interview is that near every article discussed here has the same old statements cherry-picked and quoted on these boards, and the same old gripes come crawling out ad nauseam. Now, if that's all the article had to offer, I wouldn't much care about yet another thread exploring the fine art of repetition. As it stands, however, there is actually a bit of new info here, and personally I wouldn't mind discussing it.
So by all means, tell me your problems with the city hub info! I thought the info was quite positive, and I'm interested in hearing what you think.
But wouldn't posting all that out and suggesting that people are "cherry picking" issues suggest that you're posting it because people are too incompetent to read? Actually, now that I think about it that's a poor choice of words. Rather, people are too lazy to read the entire article. That's exactly what you're doing, deny it all you want. It's not "cherry picking," it's pointing out apparent flaws in the product. Seriously, you're posts are bugging me.
What you just said just confirmed to me that all you try to do in every T4 thread is defend EM as if we're all too irrational and that anyone who apposes EM is wrong. Please prove me wrong, because so far I'm not convinced. It's well and good to discuss the positive aspects of the game, I'm fine with that, but I still don't see the need to requote the entire bit.
And don't get me wrong, I was actually rather optimistic about this game, but the more I read about it the more I'm starting to feel "meh" about the game. Having said that, there are some good things I've read about it as well.
Oh, and you wanted to hear what I think about each bit:
Quote:
The smaller City wards denote the fact that you'll travel there during the game's main storyline. Most of the side-quests and miscellaneous jobs take place in the major hubs of Stonemarket and South Quarter.
Nitpicking yeah, but "most of?" Why can't they be more evenly distributed?
Quote:
SR: During full story missions where you're going after a specific piece of treasure, you'll see a lot of various ways Garrett figures out where his prize is being kept. For hub gameplay, it's much more systemic and reliant on exploration. We hope the full package—both mission and hub gameplay—strikes a good balance for players.
Systemic? Vague, but suggests that hub missions will be very similar and not a lot of variety. How much exploration are we talking about?
Quote:
SG: Well, the complexity of “finding something behind something” isn't that complex, really. I think it's more fair to say that missions offer a little more uniqueness in design. I certainly don't think the intention is for a player to automatically home in on a painting the moment they enter a room.
SR: A primary objective within the hubs is leaving a trail of clues to follow and explore. It's also more accessible—if you only have 20 minutes to play before heading out, you can hop in and finish up a couple hub jobs before you're done as opposed to going through a full story mission.
In other words, the hub jobs will be rather predictable and 'samey' whereas the main missions will be more unique. So does the mean a lot of the same thing in the hub missions?
Quote:
SG: The hubs are useful for getting to know the world of Thief better. They're also good setting for more lighthearted content. You don't want to be in the middle of mission 5 and get interrupted with a joke out of nowhere or something. You're going to find stuff in the hubs that'll make you smile and laugh.
I don't see why you can't have "jokes" within a mission. In the old thief games, you were free to proceed in a level how you wanted, and funny conversations happened. There were no side missions. I guess now that I think about it though, this is a bit of a weak argument because this is not the old thief and there are side missions. So I guess it's a fair change.
Quote:
We talked about how we want to make sure the hubs represented exploration, but we also didn't want to encourage linearity by blocking off a bunch of stuff. Technically, job items won't show up until you talk to Basso, because that would otherwise render Basso useless. As an example, you can explore a specific apartment relating to a job before talking to Basso, but the combination for a safe in that apartment holding the job item only appears after you pick up the contract.
The bit about not encouraging linearity is fine, but it feels very 'gamey' to have jobs only "show up" if you talk to Basso. That's the thing, Basso wasn't a big part of the old Thief. Not just that, but the bit about having stuff not be there because you didn't talk to Basso seems, well, kinda restrictive and confusing to be honest.
Maybe I'm just nitpicking too much and wanting to hate it like everyone else, I don't know. I just don't feel so optimistic about THIEF anymore.
Starker on 12/10/2013 at 03:26
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
If this game doesnt feature time travel, then it will hardly be a credible source for anything related to previous canon of the Thief series itself.
What about Garrett magically waking up a year later?
You know what they say... if it smells like time travel, it probably means you have synesthesia.
LoucMachine on 12/10/2013 at 05:04
Garrett get his new ''focus/non-mechanical''eye during the fall when everything goes blank and the year past..
Nothing is related to old games, it IS a new world. Look at it like a ''paid fan-made campaign running on Unreal engine''
LoucMachine on 12/10/2013 at 23:32
T4 will be a stealth-action game... like every ''stealth'' games that came out in '09 or after.
Chade on 13/10/2013 at 22:06
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
But wouldn't posting all that out and suggesting that people are "cherry picking" issues suggest that you're posting it because people are too incompetent to read? Actually, now that I think about it that's a poor choice of words. Rather, people are too lazy to read the entire article. That's exactly what you're doing, deny it all you want. It's not "cherry picking," it's pointing out apparent flaws in the product. Seriously, you're posts are bugging me.
Cherry-picking implies neither laziness nor incompetence nor any other negative trait you might care to name. It's a thing you can do for any number of reasons, not a personality trait.
And look, people are under no obligation to avoid cherry-picking. They are free to have whatever reaction they want to the interview and quote only those parts of the interview that support that reaction. I'm not claiming otherwise. What I
am saying, is:
1) If you don't cherry-pick the negative things, and in particular, if you focus on the new information, the article is quite positive IMO.
2) The negative things being picked out are the same old negative things that have been picked out of almost every other article. We've had the exact same conversation ten times before. Personally I'm more interested in discussing the new information in the article.
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
What you just said just confirmed to me that all you try to do in every T4 thread is defend EM as if we're all too irrational and that anyone who apposes EM is wrong.
It's true that I think some complaints are irrational and wrong. I certainly don't think all negative opinions are wrong, though. There are lots of complaints that I agree or partially agree with.
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
Nitpicking yeah, but "most of?" Why can't they be more evenly distributed?
This seems like a weird criticism. Why should they be?
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
Systemic? Vague, but suggests that hub missions will be very similar and not a lot of variety
...
In other words, the hub jobs will be rather predictable and 'samey' whereas the main missions will be more unique. So does the mean a lot of the same thing in the hub missions?
...
I don't see why you can't have "jokes" within a mission. In the old thief games, you were free to proceed in a level how you wanted, and funny conversations happened. There were no side missions. I guess now that I think about it though, this is a bit of a weak argument because this is not the old thief and there are side missions. So I guess it's a fair change.
I see nothing wrong with having contrasts between in-depth story missions and simpler hub missions. I think the basic idea is quite good. The story missions are more in depth and serious, while the city hub is a bit more of a playground, with short simple missions and a lighter tone. It gives people a bit of a choice as to what sort of thief experience they want to spend more time in. Maybe!
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
The bit about not encouraging linearity is fine, but it feels very 'gamey' to have jobs only "show up" if you talk to Basso. That's the thing, Basso wasn't a big part of the old Thief. Not just that, but the bit about having stuff not be there because you didn't talk to Basso seems, well, kinda restrictive and confusing to be honest.
So how would you do it? Either you let the player get the loot before getting the quest, or not. If you let him get the loot first, do you stop him from selling it? Do you let him sell it and fail the quest? Do you let him sell it and allow him to recover it later one way or another? If you don't let him get the loot, how do you stop him? How much of the game do you shut off until the quest is given? They've chosen to shut off a minimal amount ... that seems like a decent choice to me.
