SD on 24/9/2006 at 23:37
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
Are you actually saying that because a governmet uses the death penalty you should not hold citizens who murder accountable? Cause that's a mouthful even for you.
Here we go again. Of all the stupid threads on these forums where people have twisted, misinterpreted and generally taken everything I say out of context, this is probably the worst of the lot for sheer pigheadedness, bloody-mindedness, pedantry and wilful misunderstanding.
What I'm saying is that a nation that treats its citizens poorly, or allows them to be treated so, should not then be surprised when those citizens behave in a sub-standard manner.
I'm not saying people should not be punished for their crimes.
I'm not saying we should hold government entirely responsible for the crimes people commit.
I'm not saying that some people aren't naturally inclined towards anti-social and criminal behaviour.
I'm not saying that the death penalty is the only, or even the main, factor in the way a government mistreats its citizens, merely that it is an example of such mistreatment.
I'm not saying that law and morality are exactly the same thing.
Paz on 24/9/2006 at 23:39
The real question here is what word has been self-censored in the thread title?
Presumably rude, nine letters, begins with F ...
Fuckwangs?
Fricknobs?
Fartminge?
SlyFoxx on 25/9/2006 at 00:13
Well gee Stronts...I didn't launch into you...I gave you a chance to clarify yourself. But statements like "can you really cast stones...?" do leave me to wonder about your meaning. WORDS MEAN THINGS. So perhaps you should word your thoughts more carefully before posting them for all the world to read, thus causing yourself less frustration from simple minded pig headed people like me.;)
Now for me I think some people are just born evil. Not many but some...like maybe 1 in 100,000. Just a guess. I think most bad people are that way because they were not raised properly and have little self respect, therefore don't really have the abiltiy to respect others.
As for Paz's question...I don't know. I was thinking the same thing.
fett on 25/9/2006 at 01:52
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What I'm saying is that a nation that treats its citizens poorly, or allows them to be treated so, should not then be surprised when those citizens behave in a sub-standard manner.
Jesus Stronts - what's your definition of being 'treated poorly'? We're talking about the U.K. here, and by some extention, the U.S. Are citizens being gunned down in the street, convicted without trial, murdered without prejudice in their homes?
What exactly is it that these governments do that is tantamount to a criminal raping and killing someone? Or at least the cause of such behavior? I don't see how you're making that connection given the countries in question.
I'll grant that in the Sudan, or in Nigeria, possibly even in Russia right now, the citizens have cause to take up arms against the government, or pursue a course of anarchy because of the crimes being committed upon the general population. It seems like early in the thread you blamed rape and murder within the populace on capital punishment, and now you give us a list of what you're NOT saying. What exactly are you saying about the relationship between homicide and capital punishment? I'm lost.
I also don't believe a normal person is 'suprised' by criminal activity, even when governments are corrupt, but most do believe in individual responsibility (even you).
Shug on 25/9/2006 at 02:31
Quote Posted by Paz
The headline is ace though:
England has worst crime rate in world*
(I've also just noticed that it's England & Wales being curiously paired together ... but no Scotland or Ireland (Northern or otherwise), which strikes me as a bit strange - maybe they didn't return any stats, or something)
Their statistics were stolen, raped, and murdered
Mingan on 25/9/2006 at 04:11
I'm a bit talking out of my hat here (and bandwagoning too), but the US has sometimes a blatant disregard for human life and its own constitution. I find it odd that people have to work into old age (75+), just to afford the price of life (and I don't think it has to do with buying your third 62" plasma screen). But that's just the socialist bit of me here.
But I think the track record on human rights of the US is far better than many other places. Except the odd cop beating, religious nutcases and racist panderings, the US EDIT: doesn't /edit seems to go out of its way to kill people in their home. But that track record goes awry if you're speaking of non-american citizens: see the Maher Arar case (which is not an isolate event; and I totally want to know how you Yanks pronounce his name), that Guantanamo schtick (it's been overdiscussed, but it's still there and still a disgrace), the secret CIA prisons (of which we only know that they exist), and other things that I forget.
But hey, it's not Stalinian Russia, but it's still a disgrace to a country that prides itself as a shield of virtue/good/righteousness/the civilised world.
Now, that point could've made with less words, but wth.
fett on 25/9/2006 at 04:55
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the US seems to go out of its way to kill people in their home.
I'm going to hope you don't mean IN COMPARISON to the other countries I mentioned.
SlyFoxx on 25/9/2006 at 05:23
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I'm a bit talking out of my hat here (and bandwagon too),
Well that's stating the obvious
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but the US has sometimes a blatant disregard for human life and its own constitution.
Our constitution applys to our citizens and no one else. If you are talking about people who are sworn to kill us then yes FUCK THEM and the camel they rode in on.
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I find it odd that people have to work into old age (75+), just to afford the price of life
This is a free country but it seems to cost those who actually produce something on a daily basis a lot in taxes. Social Security is a supplement to your income in the USA. If you haven't saved any $$ then your old age is going to suck. If you waste some 40-50 years of your life doing nothing, how am I supposed to help you? You obviously didn't spend that time helping yourself.
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But that's just the socialist bit of me here.
And just show me one example of where socialism really works. It's a utopian fantasy.
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But I think the track record on human rights of the US is far better than many other places
1st intelligent thing you have said...but then you have to add.
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Except the odd cop beating...
Are you talking about Rodney King? I'd have beat his ass a lot more than the cops did...fucking asshole that he was/is.
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the US seems to go out of its way to kill people in their home.
Could you provide an example besides the Waco fiasco? OMFG...the US is not perfect!!! Stop the fucking presses.
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But that track record goes awry if you're speaking of non-American citizens:
You mean the twats sworn to destroy America? FYI...they would like to see Canada in flames too. Yes, you read that correctly.
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that Guantanamo shtick
yeah...judge and entire country by the actions of a half dozen weirdos.
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the secret CIA prisons
Not much point in having them if everybody knows about it.
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But hey, it's not Stalinian Russia, but it's still a disgrace to a country that prides itself as a shield of virtue/good/righteousness/the civilised world.
And where would your sorry asses be without us? Oh that's right you'd be New Germany or something.
Gingerbread Man on 25/9/2006 at 05:36
I swear to God that's going to be banworthy one of these days.
ercles on 25/9/2006 at 05:51
Considering all the crap thats flying around about that poor Arar fella, saying stuff like that is poor in both timing and taste, Slyfoxx.
