BrendaEM on 15/9/2007 at 04:46
Only 90% of the Dark Engine speed? Well forget it : P
Actually, todays GPU's are more than 10 times faster, bringing down the adjusted 1988 rendering speed to 990%
It would seem that once a base renderer is there, things like widescreen support, might not be far behind?
Volca on 15/9/2007 at 06:50
We'll see what can be done to improve the performance. When I say 90% (just a guess), I mean running Dark on the same machine. Otherwise, I agree.
You know, I've only optimized the rendering to the point it was usable, so I could work on other parts of the system. It can be replaced by a more effective system any time, after it is written.
Widescreen support should not be a problem even now, it would be sufficient to change the camera parameters accordingly (I've got one such display at work, so no problem to do testing).
One thing is better even now - the rendering runs in 32bit depth, without the 16bit dithering.
jtr7 on 15/9/2007 at 06:58
Quote:
One thing is better even now - the rendering runs in 32bit depth, without the 16bit dithering.
Nice!:thumb: :D
SiO2 on 15/9/2007 at 12:28
Don't worry, once I've worked on the rendering side it'll be a lot faster. Just need to find the time to work on it. :sweat:
New Horizon on 15/9/2007 at 13:49
Quote Posted by SiO2
Don't worry, once I've worked on the rendering side it'll be a lot faster. Just need to find the time to work on it. :sweat:
SiO2. Are you ignoring me? :D I've sent you a few PM's and you still haven't gotten back to me.
When you sent me the PM asking how to get our content, I told you to PM Sparhawk to get SVN access. I was wondering if you did that...and if not, do that now and he will gladly set you up with an account to get the content you need to take a look at things. I realize you're busy with Opendarkengine, but we could really use some help on the rendering side of the Dark Radiant editor, and it would be a HUGE help if you could take a look at it for us. We want the editor to be the best it can be for the community.
I think there has been some confusion as to what part of the Mod you were working on. Dark Radiant is the editor, and a completely separate code base from the MOd and as I said in the PM's, you actually don't need the Dark Mod content to test the renderer in Dark Radiant, we have left Doom 3 compatibility intact, so you only need Doom 3 installed and then you can use the Doom 3 assets for testing. You can have access to TDM assets if you desire them, just PM sparhawk, but it would save you having to download the huge asset repository if you simply used D3 assets.
Please reply. I feel like there was a misunderstanding. Did you not receive the original PM when you sent me the message on our forums? I sent it. The last you posted in our forums was
Quote:
I need to go off and aquaint myself with TDM seeing as I know, like, nothing about it. I'll be back in a few days...
. As far as we knew, you were still doing that and just too busy with real life commitments to get back to us yet. We had no idea you were waiting. Why didn't you just post in the forums and say..."hey guys, I would like the content"?
I could be misinterpreting, but it kind of feels like we're getting a cold shoulder because of a miscommunication.
SiO2 on 15/9/2007 at 16:42
Quote Posted by New Horizon
SiO2. Are you ignoring me? :D I've sent you a few PM's and you still haven't gotten back to me.
When you sent me the PM asking how to get our content, I told you to PM Sparhawk to get SVN access. I was wondering if you did that...and if not, do that now and he will gladly set you up with an account to get the content you need to take a look at things. I realize you're busy with Opendarkengine, but we could really use some help on the rendering side of the Dark Radiant editor, and it would be a HUGE help if you could take a look at it for us. We want the editor to be the best it can be for the community.
I think there has been some confusion as to what part of the Mod you were working on. Dark Radiant is the editor, and a completely separate code base from the MOd and as I said in the PM's, you actually don't need the Dark Mod content to test the renderer in Dark Radiant, we have left Doom 3 compatibility intact, so you only need Doom 3 installed and then you can use the Doom 3 assets for testing. You can have access to TDM assets if you desire them, just PM sparhawk, but it would save you having to download the huge asset repository if you simply used D3 assets.
Please reply. I feel like there was a misunderstanding. Did you not receive the original PM when you sent me the message on our forums? I sent it. The last you posted in our forums was . As far as we knew, you were still doing that and just too busy with real life commitments to get back to us yet. We had no idea you were waiting. Why didn't you just post in the forums and say..."hey guys, I would like the content"?
I could be misinterpreting, but it kind of feels like we're getting a cold shoulder because of a miscommunication.
Give me a chance to reply. I'm real busy.
I spent ages trying to get set up, trawling the forum and the wiki for details of asset access only to find out that I need to go and ask someone else for access. I was not impressed. A tip: if you recruit someone from a Thief forum you can safely assume they don't want to be editing Doom3 maps. ;)
Quote:
I need to go off and aquaint myself with TDM seeing as I know, like, nothing about it. I'll be back in a few days...
Silly me. I thought I'd evaluate the mod and report back with my findings and proposals. I posted that roughly two weeks before your reply to my PM asking where the setup instructions were. How did you expect me to acquaint myself with TDM without any assets? Why didn't you reply to this at the time and save me all that frustrating searching of dead ends?
"seeing as I know, like, nothing about it". I THINK THIS WAS A CLUE.
Quote:
as I said in the PM's, you actually don't need the Dark Mod content to test the renderer in Dark Radiant
This was not stated in any PM's I've seen (either here or at thedarkmod) except the one *after* I'd PM'ed you in frustration at not being able to find setup instructions.
Iain on 15/9/2007 at 17:43
Is there any possibility that OpDE can do normal/specular mapping like Q2E/DarkPlaces-Quake/Quake4engine,...etc. ?
New Horizon on 15/9/2007 at 17:56
Quote Posted by SiO2
Give me a chance to reply. I'm real busy.
Sorry. I was just anxious to hear from you, and it felt like you were skipping over my messages. Not saying you were, it just felt that way since you answered messages after my own. :)
Quote:
This was not stated in any PM's I've seen (either here or at thedarkmod) except the one *after* I'd PM'ed you in frustration at not being able to find setup instructions.
I was referring to the recent PM's. Sorry for the confusion.
Quote:
"seeing as I know, like, nothing about it". I THINK THIS WAS A CLUE.
This really wasn't clear. It simply sounded like you were going to do some personal research on the Mod for your own interests. As I am about to explain, the task asked of you didn't require any knowledge of the dark mod, it's a completely technical task.
Quote:
Silly me. I thought I'd evaluate the mod and report back with my findings and proposals. I posted that roughly two weeks before your reply to my PM asking where the setup instructions were. How did you expect me to acquaint myself with TDM without any assets? Why didn't you reply to this at the time and save me all that frustrating searching of dead ends?
We didn't reply because you said you would be back in a few days. It just sounded like you wanted to familiarize yourself with the history of our project, it gave no indication that you were looking for assets.
The confusion seems to be coming from exactly what it was we were asking of you. Just to further clarify, we have two separate projects.
The Dark Mod and
Dark Radiant. Dark Mod contains ALL of the textures, sounds, models..etc...a separate, yet related project. Dark Radiant is simply the editor, a completely separate code base, and the project I asked you to review.
Here is my original message to you:
Quote:
I saw your link to some of your work, very impressive. I do a lot of PR and recruiting for The Dark Mod, and I'm wondering if you would consider the possibility of lending us some of your time to take a look at the realtime preview in our customized version of GTK Radiant...Dark Radiant?
As it stands, it doesn't give an accurate representation of what a mappers level will look like ingame. We don't want to get too fancy, no animated lights or shadows are required, but it would be great to have a much more accurate portrayal of how the lighting and shadows will simply look.
Hope to hear from you.I invited you to work on
Dark Radiant, not TDM. It is open source and can be downloaded from Sourceforge.
Dark Radiant can be used for Doom 3 and TDM editing...that's why you don't need TDM assets for the requested task of reviewing the Dark Radiant editor.
This is why you were not initially given any guidance towards gaining access to TDM assets, you didn't need them. TDM assets were unrelated to the task of reviewing the map preview renderer in Dark Radiant.
I'm not casting blame, I'm simply explaining why things are the way they are.
If you prefer to have full TDM access, then you are more than welcome to have it, you simply need to contact Sparhawk with the username and password you would like for the SVN account. :) You're probably aware of how SVN works, so you'll know that the download is hefty, due to all the backup versions of the files. Currently the SVN repository is around 3 gigs. It's a LOT to download for the very precise task we asked of you, but like I said...you're welcome to the access. :)
*Zaccheus* on 16/9/2007 at 14:33
Quote Posted by New Horizon
The sad reality is, unless some former LGS staffer has the source code hidden away somewhere...and in my dreams someone does...we will never see the Thief Source Code.
Even if the original source code is lost, there is a possibility that the program-database-files (.pdb in VS2005) are still archieved with the built release EXEs/DLLs. IF we had permission to use those, it would make it possible to understand the disassembled machine code.
OrbWeaver on 16/9/2007 at 14:54
Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*
Even if the original source code is lost, there is a possibility that the program-database-files (.pdb in VS2005) are still archieved with the built release EXEs/DLLs.
Are you referring to debugging symbols? Those will most likely have been removed from the executables for the final release. Even if they were still there, all they give you is the internal names of some variables and functions, which is a far cry from source code.
Quote:
IF we had permission to use those, it would make it possible to understand the disassembled machine code.
Not sure where permission comes into it, they are either in the EXE or they're not. However disassembled machine code (even with symbol names) is only really useful for certain small-scale hacks, like figuring out the internal IDs and codes used for operations or their arguments, and is nowhere near as useful as having the actual source.
