Volca on 17/5/2006 at 16:41
Yes. OSM files can't be simply rewritten, maybe later on. They manage player-world interaction, objectives handling and so on. There is huge number of functions.
They are not the engine itself, they only implement scripts. (Unfortunetaly written in C++ using COM)
See Telliamed's great page for info if you like.
(
http://thiefmissions.com/telliamed/)
jermi on 17/5/2006 at 16:54
Well, to some extent I agree with OrbWeaver's comment about the openness of such solution.
The biggest problem with this project is that the end result should play pretty much exactly like classic Thief, otherwise what's the point? But to achieve that, you'd have to duplicate stuff like sound propagation and AI quite accurately. I don't see how that would be possible.
But I'm not telling you to stop. On the contrary, even just being able to run around the familiar levels rendered by a more modern engine would be useful for something.
Vigil on 17/5/2006 at 17:31
Telliamed's been busy reverse-engineering the OSM scripts for a unified script library that AFAIK is intended to include all mission-specific and user-made scripts. I have no idea how far along it is or if he's planned to include the gen.osm scripts too, but it's on the way at least and would at least partly resolve any open-codebase issues.
sparhawk on 17/5/2006 at 18:26
Quote Posted by jermi
The biggest problem with this project is that the end result should play pretty much exactly like classic Thief, otherwise what's the point? But to achieve that, you'd have to duplicate stuff like sound propagation and AI quite accurately. I don't see how that would be possible.
Well, the same way that the original developers did it. By implementing it. But there is another big problem with this project. All that stuff has to be reverse engineered, which takes a lot of time. And the end result will be to have exactly the same Thief that we already have. Now another thing is the editor. What good is this engine if you can't create new levels with it? So you will have to replace Dromed as well. Either by reimplementing it in the same way, or by writing a new editor from scratch. This costs a LOT of time. I would expect that in the meantime TDM is long finished and people start to move to it over time. So the project would be interesting as a kind of proof of concept, but I don't really see that much benefit from it in the long run.
Vigil on 17/5/2006 at 19:10
From what I gather Volca intends the game engine to run the same missions as the original game, identically to how the original game ran them. Hence, missions created with Dromed would run also.
The benefits of a reverse-engineered engine? Cross-platform support, bugfixes, removal of design limits, and compatible with a very large body of previously-developed fan content.
Ishtvan on 18/5/2006 at 00:52
With TDM it took us about 6 months just to design and implement an AI sound propagation system on par with T1/2. Reproducing the gameplay code for a game like Thief is not easy.
Domarius on 18/5/2006 at 02:58
Well I'm glad to see he's moved to Ogre 3D. It's probably the best OS engine out there. I've got much more faith in this project now.
sparhawk on 18/5/2006 at 08:02
Quote Posted by Vigil
From what I gather Volca intends the game engine to run the same missions as the original game, identically to how the original game ran them. Hence, missions created with Dromed would run also.
I know that they would run also. after all, that's the point of this project, right? My point was in the reverse direction. If we have an open source Thief engine, what good is it, if you still have only Dromed to use to create content for it?
Quote:
The benefits of a reverse-engineered engine? Cross-platform support, bugfixes, removal of design limits, and compatible with a very large body of previously-developed fan content.
Unless the editor is also rewritten, you can hardly get around the design limits. After all, these limits also exist in the editor, so even if the engine could potentially handle more and different content, there is no way to create it, because Dromed will not support it at this point. And this is where my above statement comes from.
Quote Posted by Ishtvan
With TDM it took us about 6 months just to design and implement an AI sound propagation system on par with T1/2. Reproducing the gameplay code for a game like Thief is not easy.
Especially considering, that we were completely free in our implementation, becyause we don't have to interface with existing code, while this project would have to reproduce the original effects in almost the exact same way, in order to properly keep working with the existing stuff. So this means that it will take even longer, because you have to reverse engineer it, while we were free to choose how to implement it.
Vigil on 18/5/2006 at 09:01
Ah yes, those are good points sparhawk and I hadn't considered that Dromed's own engine implementation is entirely encapsulated in Dromed itself. Phoo.
sparhawk on 18/5/2006 at 10:15
Still, I would really look forward to a native Linux version of Thief. :) I always hoped to use Wine for that, but somehow it doesn't work properly, and being able run Thief natively on Linux would be a big bonus in my book. :) But I think the project is pretty limited as long as there is no accompanying editor as well.
