catbarf on 29/4/2008 at 23:35

---

If he was morbidly obese and bitching about 'only' getting MORE food than the recommended diet, then sure, I'll say the same thing.

Ko0K on 30/4/2008 at 02:04

---

Who said anything about making a stand? Most people tip because they are expected to and not because they are making a conscious choice to express their gratuity. It looks like you decided to disagree with me first and then build your argument around it, and that's pretty pathetic.

(edit) I read and re-read what I said, and I can't figure out where you're coming from, other than that you are somehow compelled to pick apart my logic. What I said basically amounts to me asserting that typical Americans' behaviors in certain social situations are influenced by how they expect to be perceived by the others, rather than independent thought processes. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on that or anything, and it's a generalization after all, but it just seems that you're going about it in a way that seems to me as an effort to pick a fight.

Pyrian on 30/4/2008 at 03:39

---

Generally, no, there's a separate and lower minimum wage for workers who can expect tips. 15% is considered baseline for adequate waiter service. It's okay to not tip, but it's an act generally considered to be reserved for abysmal service.

I could easily argue that the U.S. system is more free, since you have an option to punish the waiter that's not available elsewhere.

nickie on 30/4/2008 at 18:58

---

Well I walked out of a restaurant the other day before they'd even got around to serving us. Any UK TTLGers who happen to be driving up the M1 and fancy stopping off at Junction 30 Barlborough to visit the Treble Bob - don't! It's changed hands and it's bollocks now.

I've worked in a Mexican restaurant in Southsea and my local pub in Devon. In Southsea, pre-minimum wage, tips were shared out between all the staff. My share of the tips was pretty much twice as much as my wage. In Devon in the pub, tips were an added bonus and not generally very much. Much more useful to do the cleaning early in the morning and pick up what everyone had dropped while inebriated the night before.

I've also been to places here where a 10% tip was automatically included in the bill whether you had good service or not. At least they tell you on the menu or somewhere that they do that. Which is something. I always used to leave a tip regardless - now I don't. That's because the older I get the more arsey I get and I only leave a tip now if the service is good. Been there, done that so I'm just reserving my right to express my appreciation or not.

Ko0K on 1/5/2008 at 02:36

---

And how do you supposed this "system" got started in the first place? Did some legislator come up with the idea to make this work as such? I think you and I both know that it all started at first as a localized custom that was so widely accepted socially, that it eventually became the norm. By the way, tipping being 'built into the system' is still not the reason most of us tip, which I'm getting into herein.



No, I meant that it's not mandatory because nobody is forcing anyone to tip. If tipping could be done blindly, hardly anybody would. Most of us tip either because it's what everybody else does (without even thinking about why) or because otherwise *somebody* will know if we don't, and we are afraid of the consequences, be it having your food spat in on the next visit or prompting your company to think of you as a cheapskate. In other words, we tip because we feel guilty if we don't, and not because there is an established system that deprives us of alternatives. I'll give you an example to back up my claim, too: Carl's Junior. If you choose to dine in, you get to place the order number on your table, and a server will bring your order to your table. How often do you see any tip on the tables after customers leave the joint? So far, I've seen zero. Now why would that be? Let's see how you maneuver out of this one.