Oh my god. They've done it. This takes all rights away. - by Outlooker
Convict on 3/10/2006 at 15:11
I haven't heard of any illegal terrorist detention camps in Australia... Could you please clarify that?
Uncia on 3/10/2006 at 15:19
Quote Posted by Lightfall
Spelling issues aside, I don't think "huzzah" counts as onomatopoeia anymore than it's counterpart "hurrah."
Eeee! Not over the head, not over the head! <o>
demagogue on 3/10/2006 at 15:20
Quote Posted by Convict
I haven't heard of any illegal terrorist detention camps in Australia... Could you please clarify that?
Well, the most notorious is Woomera; apparently there are at least four others. Those are the public ones anyway.*
They aren't exclusive to detaining terrorists (although they have had some, at least as I've heard); their more well-known role is to house asylum seekers; nor are they any more illegal on the books than Guantanamo (that is to say, they and their detentions all have a legal basis on the books), which is probably the source of your confusion. But I didn't say they were. I just noted that I've heard from pretty credible sources that dodgy things go on in them similar to what goes on in Guantanamo, stuff that is anyway "off the books", so it's not like you'll find a ready public account or 'on the books' legal basis for it.
* I've heard hints that there are also secret ones, but I don't know any details how credible they are. If European States (no friends of the US's viz. the Iraq War) have secret CIA camps for interrogations, it stands to reason Aus would given its proximity to Indonesia and its actual stance as a member of the "coalition of the willing". Certainly Aus detains or has detained terrorist suspects in the past ... possibly on existing military bases just like in the US and Europe. That's all you really need. But the stories I heard apparently applied even to the public centers.
Convict on 3/10/2006 at 15:31
You are talking about our illegal immigrant detention centres.
Quote Posted by The Australian
Today's special: detention delight
Michael McKinnon
September 14, 2005
IMMIGRATION detainees are now enjoying culinary and more culturally appropriate fare such as tandoori chicken, lamb korma, fried perch and szechuan beef.
The Howard Government has approved new menus at the privately run Baxter detention centre after an independent review found meals at the South Australian facility were bland and tasteless.
Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone said yesterday detainees would be given a greater say to ensure meals were culturally appropriate. The changes are part of government attempts to soften its hardline image on asylum-seekers.
Senator Vanstone confirmed a report in The Australian yesterday that a consultant's review had recommended taste-testing of prospective menus, and barbecues twice a week, after complaints, including reports of maggot-infested meat.
The review, by Knowledge Consulting, obtained under Freedom of Information laws, found the food was so bad the consultants saw three-quarters of the meals being thrown in bins. Copies of the recent menus available at Baxter show fresh eggs, cereal, fresh fruit and fetta cheese served for breakfast, with vindaloo, vegetarian meals, fried chicken and szechuan beef offered for lunch, with rice and salads each day.
For dinner, detainees are served soup, vegetarian meals, braised lamb chops, fried Nile perch and barbecued lamb and chicken, with salad, steamed vegetables, chips and rice.
Senator Vanstone said the review showed not all of the required standards at Baxter had been met by British conglomerate Global Solutions, which runs six detention centres in Australia.
"This is a disappointing result and I have instructed my department to work with Global Solutions Limited to make all the necessary changes," the minister said.
The review also recommended Baxter management and staff dine with detainees at least once a week to collect "meaningful feedback" on the food served.
It found food was often a focal point for dissent, with some detainees unwilling to try unfamiliar food.
Where's my nearest centre? If my taxes are paying for such nice food I want in on it!
demagogue on 3/10/2006 at 15:39
Well, technically I was talking about the dodgy practice of trumping up "war crimes" charges on detained terrorist suspects (wherever they put them), and plea bargaining them into life sentences without access to a lawyer and without having to produce evidence.
You know there was a very similar story about Guantanamo about 2 years ago I recall, about how detainees were enjoying better meals than the Secretary of Defense gets. Rumsfeld was at the same time "bragging" and eye-rolling over it, as if critics about their treatment were in cartoon-land... And a few months later the story broke that in fact 150 of them were on a hunger strike the whole time, dozens of them seriously attempting to starve themselves to death, and they had to take away bed linens because the rate of hangings was so high. I can't help but look at the story you posted with the same skeptical eye: why are they so interested in talking about how good their food is? Could it be they are trying to deflect attention away from something else?
But anyway, those centers are your (Aus's) problem;
Edit: since I haven't studied them I can't say much, but a number of news stories aren't very promising ((
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/01/23/aust.woomera.suicide/index.html) link). As one could expect with any situations of prolonged detention and uncertainty about release, these seem to have their fair share of problems with mass depression, suicides, hunger strikes, irfings, and the like.
Paz on 3/10/2006 at 15:56
Quote:
But anyway, those centers are your (Aus's) problem
He doesn't see them as a problem, man. Except from a LET THEM EAT CAKE angle.
When Convict reads that article he sees a gourmet restaurant full of swarthy individuals swimming in his tax money (assuming he pays it) and laughing uproariously. Kind of like the version of Homer which Mr. Burns imagines when he discovers Marge has a husband in the episode where he falls for her.
In fact, the report makes no comment on the subjective quality of the food. It is a piece which states that food standards have gone from a point where the rations were inedible and largely being wasted, to a point where the meals may now be adequate for human consumption. This is the least anyone should expect - the fact that it is being trumpeted is cause for alarm.
And, indeed, most likely a smoke-screen. Get the focus away from human rights violations and onto the bullshit yaking trip of "oooh, they eat so well, there can't be any cause for complaint" (alternative angle - GRR, I HATE PAYING FOR FILTHY CRIMINALS TO EAT REASONABLY).
It's classic distraction tactics for those who are easily fooled, or who wish to easily be fooled in order to alieviate their conscience.
Pyrian on 3/10/2006 at 16:58
I'm vaguely curious if what I've been eating recently would qualify as "fit for human consumption".
fett on 3/10/2006 at 18:58
Quote:
He spells Quayle right, though.
OH MY GOD YOU ARE THE MOST 2 DIMENSIONAL PERSON ON THE PLANET.
Zygoptera on 4/10/2006 at 04:24
Quote Posted by Convict
You are talking about our illegal immigrant detention centres.
And people consistently forget that the same people locked up in these centers throw their children,
their own children, off ships.
<small>If you ever move to the UK you
must check out the Daily Mail</small>
Convict on 4/10/2006 at 12:02
Quote Posted by Paz
his tax money (assuming he pays it)
Are you implying that I cheat on my tax?
Quote:
Get the focus away from human rights violations
What human rights violations are you talking about? If you break Australian law it is not unreasonable that you are held in detention. I understand many countries in the world have jails. Confirm/deny?
Quote:
It's classic distraction tactics for those who are easily fooled, or who wish to easily be fooled in order to alieviate their conscience.
I'm not aware of these "human rights" violations you refer to in honesty.
Quote Posted by Zygoptera
And people consistently forget that the same people locked up in these centers throw their children, their own children, off ships.
When did I say this? Are you strawmanning me deliberately?
