Official: No Hammers. No Pagans. No Keepers. - by thiefinthedark
fett on 18/6/2013 at 03:19
Quote Posted by Nuth
There were zombies in TMA, too.
C'mon guys, really? There were two, TWO zombies in TMA, if you don't count the ones that *might* appear in the Necromancer's tower. And they were peripheral. How does that even count?
Renzatic on 18/6/2013 at 03:19
Quote Posted by fett
Well, as has been pointed out at length, I don't really know anything about Thief. :)
At least you're wise enough to admit your dire ignorance and foolishness, you contemptible, pernicious caitiff. :mad:
Quote:
I seriously start to wonder how long it's been since some of you have actually played the original games. I have no idea what you're even comparing T4 to anymore.
Most people here don't actually remember what it was like when they first played Thief. All those moments when they pulled out their sword, or used a few fire arrows to get out of a tough situation have long been lost to over a decade of ghosting through missions, perfecting their own techniques, and building upon their understanding of the series through thousands of discussions, fan missions, fan-fics, and fan art.
Really, most people here have come together and built up their collective idea of what would be make perfect Thief game in their heads over the years. Unfortunately, nothing anyone will ever make will ever come close to matching their expectations. What you're seeing here now is the inevitable outcome of someone making a sequel to the game a lot of people have dedicated a good chunk of their lives to studying, playing, and loving.
Nuth on 18/6/2013 at 03:23
Quote Posted by fett
C'mon guys, really? There were two, TWO zombies in TMA, if you don't count the ones that *might* appear in the Necromancer's tower. And they were peripheral. How does that even count?
How does that not count? There's also another Hammerite in the Masks mission, btw.
Goldmoon Dawn on 18/6/2013 at 03:24
Quote Posted by fett
They were largely absent in T2. Why? Because it would have been boring to have them as a central faction again.
Of course, no. That is certainly not why they werent in part II. The Hammers had no choice but to give way to the rise of the metal age. :sly: Without the mechanists, there could be no population of servants. If anything, after the fall of the mechs, the reemergence of the Hammers would be all the more poignant!
Chade on 18/6/2013 at 03:25
Quote Posted by thiefinthedark
The phrasing here is clear that developers have built their own unrelated universe, and beyond throwing out a few token nods have no interest in the pre-existing backstory ... [Fett,] your point is a strawman because those factions appeared and disappeared organically within the overall narrative of the series. In this case, EM has simply tossed out the works and gone "Meh, we want our own writing and nothing else, to hell with the entire fiction as it stands."
I originally edited this in to my last post, but the conversation is moving so fast ... !
I see no reason to believe you are right.
I'm expecting to have good reasons for the disappearance of the hammers, much like there good reasons for the mechanists to disappear, and I'm expecting the new city to be a coherent piece of fiction with lots going on, with or without the hammers.
Still, that does leave open the question of what place does religion hold in the new city?
It was easy to see how religion would work without mechanists in thief 3's city: just fall back to using hammers! It's not so easy to see how religion will work in thief 4's city with no hammers: will they have a new religious order, or will they ignore religion entirely? At this stage I'm guessing they'll ignore religion entirely, and that would be a shame.
fett on 18/6/2013 at 03:30
Is it not believable that they didn't disappear, but are simply not part of the story and therefore in the background?
Just because there are no Jawas in The Empire Strikes Back doesn't mean they've ceased to exist. We're just focused elsewhere. Like the Hammers in T2.
Vae on 18/6/2013 at 03:32
:laff:...You guys are in serious denial...
Quote Posted by Vae
"
Because it's a reinvention, we are not going back to the old factions."
So you see, by their own admission, they choose incongruency with the THIEF Universe...and as such, have chosen unwisely.
Hello.
Nuth on 18/6/2013 at 03:33
Quote Posted by fett
Is it not believable that they didn't disappear, but are simply not part of the story and therefore in the background?
I don't have a problem with them not being part of the story, but at the very least they should be part of the atmosphere. And I don't mean a dusty painting of a Hammerite shoved in an attic somewhere.
fett on 18/6/2013 at 03:37
That I agree with, wholeheartedly.
Chade on 18/6/2013 at 03:37
Well, at the very least we know there are at least some artifacts of theirs lying around. Whether that makes them "part of the atmosphere" will depend on how many there are, I suppose.
I would be surprised if there was a significant amount of these artifacts, as presumably they'll want to focus on the factions and people involved in the main story.
