Official: No Hammers. No Pagans. No Keepers. - by thiefinthedark
operativex on 9/7/2013 at 20:21
You guys are worse than most video game publishers. While EM strives to do something new and different, all you guys bitch and moan about anything that isn't identical to the previous Thief games. I'm surprised nobody is complaining about Thief being on UE3 rather than Dark Engine. Thank god creative types like EM, Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, J.J. Abrams, etc ignore the fans. Otherwise, every new iteration of a property would be the same.
Although I would like references to the previous factions, I respect EM's decision to do something new and surprise me. I'm hungry for new interesting characters/factions/experiences as opposed to rehashing the past.
New Horizon on 9/7/2013 at 20:36
Quote Posted by operativex
You guys are worse than most video game publishers. While EM strives to do something new and different, all you guys bitch and moan about anything that isn't identical to the previous Thief games. I'm surprised nobody is complaining about Thief being on UE3 rather than Dark Engine. Thank god creative types like EM, Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, J.J. Abrams, etc ignore the fans. Otherwise, every new iteration of a property would be the same.
Although I would like references to the previous factions, I respect EM's decision to do something new and surprise me. I'm hungry for new interesting characters/factions/experiences as opposed to rehashing the past.
I would love New and Different. So they should just make a new game.
Seriously, transforming Thief with features that are in almost every contemporary game is neither new or different. You're misjudging why people are complaining. There are plenty of ways to make Thief new, better and different but EM is doing very little of that.
Starker on 9/7/2013 at 20:39
Quote Posted by operativex
You guys are worse than most video game publishers. While EM strives to do something new and different, all you guys bitch and moan about anything that isn't identical to the previous Thief games. I'm surprised nobody is complaining about Thief being on UE3 rather than Dark Engine. Thank god creative types like EM, Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, J.J. Abrams, etc ignore the fans. Otherwise, every new iteration of a property would be the same.
Although I would like references to the previous factions, I respect EM's decision to do something new and surprise me. I'm hungry for new interesting characters/factions/experiences as opposed to rehashing the past.
Something new? When EM is homogenising it with features found in recent games such as the newfound <s>Batman vision</s> focus mode or QTEs?
Thief was very different from the games of its time and instead of trying to make it more like other games, maybe it would be more prudent to capitalize on its uniqueness? Maybe try for the simulation experience that the original series was striving for, instead of making it more gamey?
As for surprises, yes, there have been a few. EM sure surprised me with rewarding XP for headshots, timed action sequences, third person cinematics, and rope arrows that can only be shot into designated rope arrow shoot points, to name a few.
operativex on 9/7/2013 at 20:56
Quote Posted by Starker
Something new? When EM is homogenising it with features found in recent games such as the newfound <s>Batman vision</s> focus mode or QTEs?
Thief was very different from the games of its time and instead of trying to make it more like other games, maybe it would be more prudent to capitalize on its uniqueness? Maybe try for the simulation experience that the original series was striving for, instead of making it more gamey?
As for surprises, yes, there have been a few. EM sure surprised me with rewarding XP for headshots, timed action sequences, third person cinematics, and rope arrows that can only be shot into designated rope arrow shoot points, to name a few.
Having never played the game, you have no idea how well all of that could gel together.
operativex on 9/7/2013 at 20:59
Quote Posted by New Horizon
I would love New and Different. So they should just make a new game.
Seriously, transforming Thief with features that are in almost every contemporary game is neither new or different. You're misjudging why people are complaining. There are plenty of ways to make Thief new, better and different but EM is doing very little of that.
IMO these features, while they exist in other games, could very well create new experiences. I view these gameplay mechanics as literary devices that engage the reader. When a new author begins a book, do you think they reinvent a new way of storytelling? No, they rearrange classic literary tropes and mix things up.
Dia on 9/7/2013 at 21:00
Quote Posted by operativex
You guys are worse than most video game publishers. While EM strives to do something new and different, all you guys bitch and moan about anything that isn't identical to the previous Thief games.
Ahhh .... so now we're classifying
reboots as 'new and different', are we? With a touch of Mirror's Edge, Dishonored, and Assassins Creed thrown in for good measure. Oh yes; that's really what I'd call 'new and different'. Just like parkour (aka freerunning) is so very new and innovative and has never been implemented in any other video games, right up there along with timed speed-runs.
Creating a whole
new type of stealth/action game that
isn't a reboot of any game that went before - now
THAT would be new and different. T4 - well - yeah, no.
Quote Posted by operativex
I'm hungry for new interesting characters/factions/experiences as opposed to rehashing the past.
Yes, because there's never been a master thief named Garrett in any video games before T4 has there? Nor has there ever been an evil Baron who controls the City Watch in any games called Thief either. Oh wait: that's all in the past, isn't it.
Seriously.
operativex on 9/7/2013 at 21:08
Quote Posted by Dia
Ahhh .... so now we're classifying
reboots as 'new and different', are we? With a touch of Mirror's Edge, Dishonored, and Assassins Creed thrown in for good measure. Oh yes; that's really what I'd call 'new and different'. Just like parkour (aka freerunning) is so very new and innovative and has never been implemented in any other video games, right up there along with timed speed-runs.
Creating a whole
new type of stealth/action game that
isn't a reboot of any game that went before - now
THAT would be new and different. T4 - well - yeah, no.
Yes, because there's never been a master thief named Garrett in any video games before T4 has there? Nor has there ever been an evil Baron who controls the City Watch in any games called Thief either. Oh wait: that's all in the past, isn't it.
Seriously.
As I stated above this post, you don't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel to do something different. Authors write "new and different" books every day while using the same literary devices since the ancient Greeks.
Starker on 9/7/2013 at 21:12
Quote Posted by operativex
Having never played the game, you have no idea how well all of that could gel together.
You don't get great games by throwing together popular features from other games and hoping for the best.
There is no perfect video game, (
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7161-Perfect-Pasta-Sauce) there are only perfect video games.
In the terms of pasta sauces, we want the extra chunky, not the watered down crap.
Chade on 9/7/2013 at 21:15
Quote Posted by Starker
What were the upgrades?
Seriously? What about dynamic shadows and better AI? We're talking about significant upgrades to two of the three game mechanics that together make up 95% of the gameplay in thief.
(Personally I think dynamic shadows alone are worth more then rope arrows and swimmable water and all the other little stuff decorating the edges of the core stealth gameplay.)
More controversially, I'd say the free-roaming hub section was a nice addition, as much as it could have been done better, and I'd place the story and atmosphere above thief 2. Finally, some of the missions are up there with the best in the series.
operativex on 9/7/2013 at 21:20
Quote Posted by Starker
You don't get great games by throwing together popular features from other games and hoping for the best.
Now this is just an underhanded insult at EM making them sound like clumsy fools. Whether you agree with their decisions or not, I can bet you they probably debate every single feature -- no large game dev just "throws" features together and spends millions to build it.
And to name a few excellent games that pull common mechanics from other games while still create a new experience:
Mass Effect
Far Cry
BioShock
Skyrim
Arkham City
Minecraft (news flash, not the first world builder)
