Chade on 6/6/2013 at 05:01
Quote Posted by demagogue
I think the big reason it hasn't had more exposure is being tied down as a Doom3 mod. But when it goes opensource this year, I think it'll start seeing a lot more mainstream outside exposure (I hope!).
Best of luck!
Quote Posted by demagogue
The extent to which fan made content spreads to general gamers is on a spectrum. Some fan made content becomes very famous, cf. Counter Strike, ... Some never gets out of their little niche ... I think general gamers at least know about it... like Morrowind, Oblivion, & Skyrim mods get a lot of exposure ... Tomb Raider fan missions less so ...
Certainly there are exceptions to any general principle that you might apply, but if we were to actually do the work and gather the data, I'd expect to see a power law at work, with the lowest levels taken to be the general principle, and Half-Life and Bethdesa's games being the exceptional cases at the far end of the curve.
Quote Posted by demagogue
As for the fan's role, I think it matters more to the longevity of a game than its initial exposure... Will people still be playing it 5-10 years from now? With fan content, they could. I don't know how much EM/SquareEnix care about that though, since their biggest payoff comes from early sales. It's something we can care about...
I wonder if the current commercial model, where they get exactly the same amount of money from hardcore fans as they do from casual users, could actually make it harder to make the sort of deep games we'd like to see. I wonder how much people here would pony up, on average, to get a "traditional" thief game, and how much it would change if it was payed up-front vs payed over a period of time as the player continues to enjoy the game.
(Of course there are collectors editions, but this rewards them for hyping up gamers at the point of purchase, not for offering an experience that builds loyalty.)
Quote Posted by Starker
It's not just about additional content. The fans are creating a something that newcomers can tap into, a community they can be part of, a space for discussions and interaction.
That's certainly true, but my guess is that relatively few newcomers join, at least in most cases. I think most of the value of most fan-made content is the entertainment provided to already loyal fans.
Returning to that quote you highlighted from the article: My claim is that:
* the survival of the franchise == the number of people who will buy the game because of the influence of the older games, and
* the majority of people who will buy the new game because of the older games are people who have played the old games and enjoyed them, but have not played much fan-made content.
henke on 6/6/2013 at 08:35
Quote Posted by SeriousCallersOnly
Only the most superficial 3d addict shithead would ever consider it worty of being the waterboy for the previous fallouts.
I must be a 3d addict then because I loved Fallout 3.
btw could someone hook me up with some 3d? Starting to get the shakes here, man. Need some of that sweet sweet tripple-dipple (that's junkie-slang for 3d)
Starker on 6/6/2013 at 11:58
Quote Posted by Chade
That's certainly true, but my guess is that relatively few newcomers join, at least in most cases. I think most of the value of most fan-made content is the entertainment provided to already loyal fans.
Returning to that quote you highlighted from the article: My claim is that:
* the survival of the franchise == the number of people who will buy the game because of the influence of the older games, and
* the majority of people who will buy the new game because of the older games are people who have played the old games and enjoyed them, but have not played much fan-made content.
Which brings us to the concepts of "imagined franchise" and "franchise disloyalty"...
(
http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=34629)
[QUOTE=]This chapter is about an "imagined franchises." While a game may stand alone as a set of programs for developers or an experience for players, each person who plays the game or participates in the creation of a game draws from it their own impressions and experiences. Once a game goes into sequels, the game begins to develop a notion of franchise among both developers and fans - essentially notions of expectations, values and constraints defined by the understood tenets of the game.
[...]
It is clear that the values Fallout fans can agree on are inherent to the series are actually inherent to the franchise, simply because the franchise does not exist as any asset outside of people's imaginations, even if it is an asset in a legal sense.
[...]
But you can make a franchise crumble in less obvious ways. Fallout is seen to have a number of inherent factors such as choice-and-consequence, SPECIAL system (and thus isometric view and turn-based combat), dark ironic humor, PA-50's Americana sci-fi, well-written NPCs and dialog, talking heads, the opportunity to pursue either a "good" or "evil path" or a combination of the two, and so on and so forth. These factors, together with a number of facets people probably never noticed, are so intertwined within the experience that removing any one would cause a domino effect which would hollow out the franchise completely.
This is what happened with X-Com Enforcer. This is what happened with Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. It is thus not surprising that these games were complete failures. This has nothing to do with their quality as games. Rather, it was because the developers use of the franchise name meant that these games were not judged as individual games but rather as parts of an existing franchise with highly developed and well received elements. By ignoring the central tenets, the developers failed to incorporate the necessary requirements which form the expectations of the franchise. Essentially, by failing to abide by the expectations built by the history of the franchise, the developers did what is traditionally known as "ignoring the fanbase". But discounting the imagined understanding that has been built by the history of the franchise and its fans is both a broader and more destructive choice than "just" ignoring the fans.
One might believe that the qualities of the individual games are more important than the "imagined" franchises in part because the success of the franchise depends, over time, on the success of the individual games. But actually that is pretty far from the truth. Much like invoking the name of a philosophy, religion or nation, by using the name of a series which, through shared perceptions and expectations, has become a franchise, the game is obliged to not only uphold the standards of quality expected of any game, but must also uphold and conform to the standards of the franchise. Otherwise it suffers a great risk of becoming valueless as a contribution to the imagined franchise.
Keep in mind that this is "just" a risk. Not all series die with reform. By dropping the central tenets of an old franchise and renovating the game inside-out, one kills off all ties to the franchise existing fan base. But this does not obstruct the creation of a new fanbase. This is what is known as franchise disloyalty, with the Elder Scrolls series often cited as an example.
This is what might actually be happening to the Souls' franchise. Dark Souls 2 marketing is apparently ramped up to get a slice of some of the sweet Skyrim fanbase pie. What was once a game developed with reasonable costs to a specific audience may yet increase production values, make the game world more easily understandable and add easy modes to try capture the mainstream audience.
Renzatic on 7/6/2013 at 20:03
Quote Posted by Starker
This is what might actually be happening to the Souls' franchise. Dark Souls 2 marketing is apparently ramped up to get a slice of some of the sweet Skyrim fanbase pie. What was once a game developed with reasonable costs to a specific audience may yet increase production values, make the game world more easily understandable and add easy modes to try capture the mainstream audience.
Wuh? They've already said that the Easy Mode idea was nixed pretty quickly in development, the "game world more easily understandable" relates more to the story and history being a little more up front than it was in the original, and hell..DS1 already had sky high production values.
They might be marketing a little more strongly to the Elder Scrolls fanbase, but the game itself hasn't been dumbed down in any way whatsoever.
Yeah. I know. I said I'd agree with everything you said after the cookie situation. But this is Dark Souls, damnit! I can't do that here. :mad: