Goldmoon Dawn on 2/6/2013 at 15:29
Wait a minute... art thou speaking of The Metal Age?!
Jason Moyer on 2/6/2013 at 15:58
Beholdest thee a single voice rang true, nay a quiver from mine lips, that thine exultation plac-ed upon thee second installment be mislaid yea verily and thy aformentioned title lay itself thusly betwixt thee goodest of thine surrounding games, in thee builders name, amen. *solemnly smacks copy of thief 2 against forehead*
gunsmoke on 2/6/2013 at 15:59
Deadly Shadows is one fun freaking game. Sure, it had loading zones, but that was my only complaint. The audio was amazing, and the lighting/shadows were breath-taking. Oh, the lack of swimming was naff. I can live with that, though.
Goldmoon Dawn on 2/6/2013 at 16:33
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Beholdest thee a single voice rang true, nay a quiver from mine lips, that thine exultation plac-ed upon thee second installment be mislaid yea verily and thy aformentioned title lay itself thusly betwixt thee goodest of thine surrounding games, in thee builders name, amen. *solemnly smacks copy of thief 2 against forehead*
It was a pretty fair forgery. That is to say that it was a fairly competent "old British medieval" themed shooter with bows and arrows instead of guns. The best of its kind, if not the *only* of its kind! :ebil:
Jason Moyer on 2/6/2013 at 16:54
Sounds great, downloading now.
heywood on 2/6/2013 at 20:42
There are definitely parallels.
Fallout 1&2 are the 2nd/3rd favourite RPGs I've ever played. I loved them back in the day, but I can't see myself replaying them today or playing a true-to-the-original sequel. Games have raised the bar on immersion considerably since 1997, and as a result immersion became more important to me in an RPG, so I don't think I could really get into role-playing with the isometric perspective and turn-based combat anymore.
When Fallout 3 was released, it seemed on paper to be exactly what I would like. A first-person, real-time, more immersive take on the Fallout world. But I got bored with it and didn't finish the main quest. Same result as Oblivion and Morrowind before it. I just can't get into Bethesda RPGs, although I can see why people love them.
Fallout 3 is fundamentally a different kind of RPG than Fallout 1&2. So naturally the fans who wanted the new game to be true to the originals weren't going to like it. But I think FO3 is a very good game in its own right. And let's face it, nobody was or is going to make a new Fallout game that plays like the originals. There's just not a big enough market for that kind of RPG anymore. So it's not like handing the franchise over to Bethesda prevented it from being made. If the Fallout setting hadn't been adapted for a new spin-off series, it would have been left to die.
But I think the situation with Thief is a little bit different. Thief gameplay is more accessible and a lot closer to being current than Fallout 1&2. The original Fallout games were old school even when they were new, and somewhat hardcore. So the updates & changes needed to make a commercially successful Thief title today should be much less extensive than what Bethesda did to make Fallout 3. So far, Thief fans have been sweating the small stuff compared to their Fallout counterparts (although lots of small stuff starts to add up).
Shinrazero on 2/6/2013 at 21:35
Quote Posted by heywood
There are definitely parallels.
Fallout 1&2 are the 2nd/3rd favourite RPGs I've ever played. I loved them back in the day, but I can't see myself replaying them today or playing a true-to-the-original sequel. Games have raised the bar on immersion considerably since 1997, and as a result immersion became more important to me in an RPG, so I don't think I could really get into role-playing with the isometric perspective and turn-based combat anymore.
When Fallout 3 was released, it seemed on paper to be exactly what I would like. A first-person, real-time, more immersive take on the Fallout world. But I got bored with it and didn't finish the main quest. Same result as Oblivion and Morrowind before it. I just can't get into Bethesda RPGs, although I can see why people love them.
Fallout 3 is fundamentally a different kind of RPG than Fallout 1&2. So naturally the fans who wanted the new game to be true to the originals weren't going to like it. But I think FO3 is a very good game in its own right. And let's face it, nobody was or is going to make a new Fallout game that plays like the originals. There's just not a big enough market for that kind of RPG anymore. So it's not like handing the franchise over to Bethesda prevented it from being made. If the Fallout setting hadn't been adapted for a new spin-off series, it would have been left to die.
But I think the situation with Thief is a little bit different. Thief gameplay is more accessible and a lot closer to being current than Fallout 1&2. The original Fallout games were old school even when they were new, and somewhat hardcore. So the updates & changes needed to make a commercially successful Thief title today should be much less extensive than what Bethesda did to make Fallout 3. So far, Thief fans have been sweating the small stuff compared to their Fallout counterparts (although lots of small stuff starts to add up).
It would not surprise me if nuThief is really successful but I fear the changes will be at the expense of alienating fans. As far as sweating the small stuff, it appears to be adding up already. The absence of SR is pretty significant IMO, not to mention 3P takedowns, muted presence of magic, focus, first person break, etc. Admittedly, I was not big into the original fallout games. I played some of the first one though and I can empathize with the fans of that series. F3 was a big departure from the format of its predecessors, alienated fans and was still successful.
jtr7 on 2/6/2013 at 21:51
And it's not small stuff if it's the stuff that defined the experience for the player, cementing it, vital to what separates it from the rest and makes it great. If a person doesn't care about those things, then the person...doesn't care.
It's only serving to undermine what could've been another defiant classic, but will be a hot-seller that isn't remembered but for it's quirks.
@Jason Moyer: Serious? Right.
Chade on 2/6/2013 at 22:16
Quote Posted by Starker
Um... I'm not making a grand statement about anything. I wish people stopped taking everything as a confrontation.
Point taken. Sorry.
Quote Posted by Starker
There are many interesting parallels between NMA and Thief fans and their respective franchises that I wanted to highlight with the article.
Ok, fair enough, that's probably true.
So first off: some disclaimers. I've never played fallout 3, and I've only played the first two games very briefly. I have no opinion on the actual games themselves. I only have opinions on external details such as how the games were received, how they sold, etc.
So look, by any objective metric, fallout 3 was a very successful game. Review score, industry awards, sales, successful follow-on titles, you name it. If Thief 4 has a similar reception, I'll certainly count it a success. I'm curious how many people here wouldn't?
Now perhaps you can say that fallout 3 didn't do very well according to the metric of "fraction of super hardcore fans of 1 and 2 that liked 3", but is that a metric that anyone apart from those hardcore fans should care about? (This is an honest question btw, I'm really curious to see what people come up with.)
I guess the other issue is how strong the parallels are between thief 4 and fallout 3. I don't think I have anything to add on top of what Heywood said. Thief has pretty accessible mainstream game mechanics at its core. All you need to do is dress it up a little bit. In some ways I'd say the most hardcore element is the fiction, which after three games has taken on a life of its own.
So there are certainly parallels between thief 4 and fallout 3, but I think the parallels between thief 4 and deus ex 3 are stronger. Deus Ex 3 managed to incorporate a lot of these modern bells and whistles without alienating fans (somewhat to my surprise, I must say). Perhaps memories of dx2 helped? Thief 3 and dx2 might be another parallel between thief 4 and dx3.
(And btw, on that subject, I'm with Jason on T1 > T3 > T2 ... ;))
SeriousCallersOnly on 2/6/2013 at 22:39
Fallout 3 is a piece of shit, a literal dump on the fallout cannon. Shit simple quests, moronic main quest, retarded towns (even worse than fallout 2 and that takes some doing), unbelivably stupid ending. Only the most superficial 3d addict shithead would ever consider it worty of being the waterboy for the previous fallouts.
:mad:
enjoy the new crop of 'fans' this new thief game will bring - maybe you too will feel fulfiled by a on rails bioshock chase sequence over rooftops beams with literal scripted rails.
:joke:
