heretic on 14/6/2008 at 18:30

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Yes, the whole transcript was posted a few back. Thomas Sowell wrote a great article which mentioned the incident, aside from that it seemed to go largely unnoticed.

That last bit of your post honestly seems a bit silly IMO.

heretic on 14/6/2008 at 21:53

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Just curious Elkston:

How do you define acting white?

Being articulate, courtly and accountable? Or does it simply come down to a lack of any of the "ghetto" traits mentioned before? Are blacks that lack these traits somehow less black?

Do you perceive asians and other non-whites as "acting white" when they conduct theirselves as described above?

Do you really think it's not that Americans have moved on that has allowed for Obama's success so far, but that so many racist Americans are stupid enough that Obama not putting on a minstrel show has simply fooled them into forgetting that he is black?

How can anyone -white or black, move past a stereotype that is actually encouraged?

We need to question these talismanic mantras of racial identity if we are ever really going to move on.

Edit : Tom T Hall wtf

elkston on 14/6/2008 at 23:13

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Yes. Fortunately, neither Obama nor Michelle act "ghetto" normally, so that is in their favor. I think they may occasionally adopt this lingo in order to better connect with that portion of black Americans.



This is an unfortunate attitude that permeates into many of the more "ghetto" blacks in our country. (yes, I am black). If you are seen as speaking well or showing interests in academic pursuits then you are an outsider. An "oreo".

Trust me, I have been through all of this growing up. Grew up in a predominately white neighborhood. Hung out with mostly white kids and some more affluent blacks. But never felt I belonged firmly in either world. The blacks from the rough neighborhoods thought I was an oreo or a nerd. Well, many of them did at least. I was able to make friendships with some despite this.

I know exactly the social tightrope Obama walked. Not black enough for the common brother, and yet, unable to be accepted into white society no matter how much he shared their interests, pursuits,and values.

I think that now that he has proven that he can connect with all blacks, he needs act more like himself again. Keep being the stately, articulate fellow that communicates his ideas and listens with empathy. This transcends race and will retain his white appeal.



No. I personally do not. But the aformentioned ignorant ghetto blacks (and some whites) will.

You have to understand. Black and brown folks have been beaten down economically and psychologically for years in this country. These are all residual effects of slavery and the subsequent discrimination that persisted afterwards.

Every day they are bombarded with messages telling them they aren't worth shit, won't amount to anything, and are nothing but thugs and murders. The only way to opportunity is being a big rap star or a sports sensation. Add onto this the perpetual dependency of the welfare state and a culture that celebrates mediocrity as "keeping it real", and you have a recipe for low expectations and disaster.

Doing well in school, saving money, playing golf, reading, learning a musical instrument. Nah, that's stuff those "OTHER" folks do.

Remember now. I'm not talking about all black people. Just a large number of them that often live in ghettos and lower income areas.




Many have moved on, and this is an encouraging fact. They see Obama as an individual and don't try to define him by his race.

But many, many more are still afraid of a powerful, independent black man speaking his mind as their leader. Within the pits of their soul they believe in the white birthright to rule over other races. And blacks are the lowest of low. These are not their conscience thoughts. Outwardly they are cordial with blacks and even sympathetic in some cases. But their inner thoughts of superiority are always there.

So now when the possibility of a black president is actually becoming a reality, the ugly, repressed racism starts to emerge. This manifests itself in the constant challenges to his Patriotism, citizenship, values, etc.



I agree.

heretic on 15/6/2008 at 00:13

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First of all, thanks for taking the time to reply. A lot of folks around here tend to take the easy way out whenever they are questioned about why they feel the way they do.

I can't agree that anything quoted above describes any significant percentage of white America. IMO these are all largely obsolete talking points that I hear coming from folks like Sharpton or Jackson while they rake in tons of money, driving fancy cars to and from their country club mansions.

A lot of the problems these communities have must come from within, and until the leaders of these communities recognize that whitey just doesn't give a shit enough to keep anyone down anymore things will not change.

There just doesn't seem to be much truth to these far-reaching claims when they are actually put to the test, but it seems like whenever black pundits try to elaborate on this issue they are quickly decried as uncle Tom's and attacked as you've describe above.

One example regarding the messages of opportunity you mentioned:

Why in gods name have various entertainers and moguls beat out the likes of Thomas Sowell, Armstrong Williams or Clarence Thomas (none of which even placed on said list) on the '100 Most Influental Lists' doled out by Ebony and such. Regardless of anyone's politics, that is simply shamefull.

Obviously Ebony isn't a white mag, so the manufactured admiration of these roles and the enforcement of stereotypes has come from within. In this case, no whitefolk need tell anyone what they can or can't aspire to.

Even if this is simply fallout from the past then it's still not the fault of white America any longer IMO. If you feel that it is, then exactly how much longer should it be considered as such?

What do you think has to happen for change to take place, and just how the hell does someone prove whether or not someone is any more unconsciously racist than we are prone to be as human beings?

-and how could this (unconcious racism) manifest on a large scale despite being such taboo these days for that matter?

Aerothorn on 15/6/2008 at 01:48

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Well written stuff, elk! If only my fellow college students could discuss race without flinging the word "racist" around:(