henke on 10/6/2008 at 16:30
Quote Posted by Ladron De La Noche
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy5XS68_Bc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy5XS68_Bc
Fox News E. D. Hill calls Barack Obama + Michelle Obama campaign rally handshake a "terrorist fist jab?" on national television.
Some people need to get terrorist fist jabbed in the face.
heretic on 10/6/2008 at 21:22
BR796164- Semantic change is here to stay, get over it.
Also-
That was retarded.
If ED Hill wanted to evoke some terrorist context she should have just capitalized on Ayers instead of her own ignorance.
In any event, her show has been cancelled.
Ghostly Apparition on 10/6/2008 at 22:52
Quote Posted by Koki
Are you suggesting that any change proposed there is baaad?
Quite a lot there seems to me to be not thought out well. Libertarians have been described by some as republicans that want to smoke dope and get laid.
Just for starters They on the one hand want to provide for a national defense,
but one that is voluntary. One other thing they propose is the dissolution of the IRS, which sounds good, but then how do you pay for the military self defense?
Another thing they propose is under 2.5 money and financial markets
Quote" Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. "
To which I reply that, from now on, I propose we all buy and sell goods using rubber duckys as units of exchange. Its ludicrous, and would be impossible to implement.
I especially like the next one:
2.6 Monopolies and Corporations
We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals.
Meaning they would privatize everything. Think about that for a minute.
Want to pay a toll to go down your street to go home? Or get a bill from the fire department for putting out that kitchen fire.
I can find quite a lot bad about what they propose.
heretic on 11/6/2008 at 02:09
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Just for starters They on the one hand want to provide for a national defense, but one that is voluntary. One other thing they propose is the dissolution of the IRS, which sounds good, but then how do you pay for the military self defense?
Surely you mean national defense?
-By forcing the government to become leaner and more efficient. Every independant study I'm aware of has shown that national defense and infrastructure is provided for even before federal income taxes are placed into the tally. Our governments bloat and waste is not good enough reason to simply keep feeding the monster IMO.
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Another thing they propose is under 2.5 money and financial markets
Quote" Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item." To which I reply that, from now on, I propose we all buy and sell goods using rubber duckys as units of exchange. Its ludicrous, and would be impossible to implement.
No it's not, because only the parties involved in the given transaction must agree to the terms. How exactly are measures of gold, silver, service in exchange or even rubber duckies any more ludicrous than slips of green paper from the federal reserve or the endless tendrils of credit debt that keep us in chains?
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
I especially like the next one: 2.6 Monopolies and Corporations
We defend the right of individuals to form corporations, cooperatives and other types of companies based on voluntary association. We seek to divest government of all functions that can be provided by non-governmental organizations or private individuals.Meaning they would privatize everything.
Reagan said it best: "The government isn't the solution to the problem, the government is the problem..."
What has the government ever been able to do better than private buisness or individuals? Even our health care system is increasingly in shambles, directly in proportion to our government's intervention. What do we have to show for it? 130,000 pages of Medicare regulations that a legion of Mensan lawyers can hardly understand.
I wouldn't fear the tolls scenario and such if not for any reason then that where the government allows for a bureaucratic derth of common sense, the successful private market does not.
Ghostly Apparition on 11/6/2008 at 03:38
Quote Posted by heretic
Reagan said it best: "The government isn't the solution to the problem, the government is the problem..."
For 30 years Republicans have said that government can't do things right, then they get themselves elected and set out to prove it by screwing everything up.
There really isn't that much difference in libertarians and republicans as far as I can see.
You can believe whatever you want but for me the last 8 years of the republican rule has the U.S. nearly in a depression. With inflation on the rise and gas prices and food rising almost daily. Its a direct result of fiscal irresponsibility on their part spending almost 2 billion dollars a day in Iraq by going into debt, has the u.s. dollars value decreasing, while lack of regulation on the mortgage and banking industry has homeowners in foreclosure or barely making it. I'm sorry but rampant privatization and Reaganomics aren't cutting it. I'm willing to give the democrats a chance. Hell Bill Clinton actually governed as more of a moderate than actual liberal democrat and it isn't hard to look up or remember even that the economy was in far better shape under the Clintons than what Bush has done.
Unless of course you're the CEO of one of the major oil companies or a beneficiary of one of the no bid Iraq contracts. Besides there isn't a chance in hell of a libertarian actually getting elected.
heretic on 11/6/2008 at 03:55
Quote Posted by Ghostly Apparition
Besides there isn't a chance in hell of a libertarian actually getting elected.
Not at this time, but both parties are running out of second chances.
The economy under Clinton benefited tremendously from the dot-com boom, which to a very large degree arose from the tax cuts and research incentives in the tech industry, which were granted by the Reagan administration.
If you can't see the difference between Libertarians and Republicans then you simply aren't looking hard enough.
Ironically enough, it is far more substantive then the differances between Republicans and Democrats these days.
Stitch on 11/6/2008 at 04:22
Quote Posted by heretic
Ironically enough, it is far more substantive then the differances between Republicans and Democrats these days.
Republicans and Democrats certainly do line up on all the issues these days.
heretic on 11/6/2008 at 05:03
Quote Posted by Stitch
Republicans and Democrats certainly do line up on all the issues these days.
That's not what I said...but in terms of what actually gets done when they are eventually elected, that is basically correct.
It's not much of a reach considering that I didn't mean that the parties are moving centerwards together, only that they are both moving to the left.
Todays Republicans are yesterdays Democrats, I'll leave it to you to discern what todays Democrats are.
the_grip on 11/6/2008 at 06:09
Not sure that i'd call myself Libertarian, but heretic i do sympathize with the whole invisible hand thing re:the economy. Both republicans and democrats are guilty of trying to interfere just when it starts working.
(case in point - this silly tax the gas companies thing)
Chimpy Chompy on 11/6/2008 at 10:45
Libertarian thought sounds good sometimes - I wouldn't mind a bit of that kind of thinking injected into our politics over here. But privatising everything (or almost everything) is a bit nuts. Go on about BIG GOVERNMENT WASTE RARG all you want, it still sounds nuts. And there's stuff like environmental concerns that I have no faith in the free market to deal with.
