SubJeff on 3/7/2008 at 16:49
More like one where you don't know the meaning of arbitrary.
Are you seriously saying that one hand someone might deserve to die but on the other no one has the "right" to make that choice therefore they shouldn't be killed? Cuz if so, that's very Nu Labour way of thinking dawg.
I ask again - what if someone nuked a city? Seriously. Would you be happy for the death penalty then?
Imho committing certain acts removes your right to life.
Thirith on 3/7/2008 at 16:58
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I ask again - what if someone nuked a city? Seriously. Would you be happy for the death penalty then?
Since I'm a self-confessed bleeding heart, I hope it's okay if I give my answer. No, I wouldn't be happy for the death penalty. I don't see what useful function it would fulfill that sets it apart from life in prison.
Quote:
Imho committing certain acts removes your right to life.
Honest question here: where do you draw the line between acts that remove your right to life and acts that don't? Because that's where I see the major problem.
Rogue Keeper on 3/7/2008 at 17:08
Death penalty, death penalty, death penalty.... what PENALTY?
I propose to rename it to DEATH LIBERATION.
fett on 3/7/2008 at 17:55
Quote Posted by SD
I do wonder if this is one of those bizarre issues when Americans and Europeans just don't see eye-to-eye.
I think it might also be one of those issues when parents and non-parents don't see eye-to-eye (and if anyone yells at me for playing the parent card I will set your arm on fire. Shut up).
Thirith on 3/7/2008 at 18:02
This will sound like an odd question, fett, but do you think that being a parent just means that you've got a different opinion on this, or that it gives you the correct opinion and those who don't agree with you are definitely wrong?
SubJeff on 3/7/2008 at 19:07
Good question Thirith. Certainly sounds like some messed up double standard to me. It's like 2+2=4 if I'm wearing a red shirt but =5 if it's blue yo. If having kids means you flip your principles how can we rely on you for any damn thing?
Thirith - do you think that no person every deserves the death sentence, ever?
SD on 3/7/2008 at 19:28
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Are you seriously saying that one hand someone might deserve to die but on the other no one has the "right" to make that choice therefore they shouldn't be killed? Cuz if so, that's very Nu Labour way of thinking dawg.
No, it's a very
liberal, humanist way of thinking.
Someone who commits a crime should be punished, and that punishment should be proportionate. If someone kills another person, then I dare say, for arguments sake, you could say that that person "deserves" to die.
But even if I believed that, I still cannot see a situation where ending another person's life is an acceptable course of action. I mean, I can see the justification in killing an enemy soldier, or killing someone in self-defence; but I can't see any justification for arbitrarily (yes,
arbitrarily) ending a person's life because they might have done something bad.
Criminal justice should not be in the revenge business.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Imho committing certain acts removes your right to life.
Well, I'll ask you too: who are
you to make that call? I know your kind generally have God complexes, but you ain't God.
Quote Posted by fett
I think it might also be one of those issues when parents and non-parents don't see eye-to-eye
My parents have children, and they're still firmly against the state murdering its citizens.
Thirith on 3/7/2008 at 19:30
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Thirith - do you think that no person every deserves the death sentence, ever?
As trite as it sounds, I agree with Gandalf: "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends."
Does someone who rapes a child to death deserve death? Probably. Should human beings make that decision and the State execute the sentence? As far as I'm concerned, no. They'd have to draw a line, and every crime that crosses that line deserves death - but the way this line is drawn can only be arbitrary.
SubJeff on 3/7/2008 at 20:43
If you are prepared to accept that someone may deserve to die then you are halfway to accepting the death sentence. It seems the two of you have a problem with the deciding who to execute and in which circumstances. If that's the case then we're reading from the same page - I think that a death sentence
can be acceptable.
Handing down that sentence is a different thing altogether. My main issue is more with 100% proof of guilt though, but I can see why the rest of the issue might pose a dilemma.
As to criminal justice and revenge - you don't think that locking someone up for 15 years is revenge of any sort? Personally I think it's too low a sentence for many murders, but I can still see a revenge component to all sentencing.
Quote:
I know your kind generally have God complexes, but you ain't God.
What is this shit? If you want to have a rational discussion then stop dropping in your boring prejudices. Did a doctor steal you girlfriend or something? ffs
Finally SD, do you think that the senior Nazis who were given death sentences should have been allowed to live? Do you think that Mengele, if caught, should have been put to death?
Epos Nix on 3/7/2008 at 21:11
Maybe we should analyze what aspects of society create men who rape 5 year olds and figure out how to prevent such things instead of deciding the best way for them to die.
Or is that too big a task?
