SubJeff on 30/7/2013 at 11:24
There is a little bit of undead in Thief 2, no?
I agree Vae - the target audience is different and they will never capture the same magic. Doesn't mean it can't be a good game though.
Esme on 30/7/2013 at 11:46
Quote Posted by Thirith
...what with Jenivere having been Basso's 'bird'...
Heh
Not seen that quaint 60's reference to women as 'birds' since ... well the 60's
And can we get over ourselves with the '
EM are insulting us' crap please.
EM decided what demographic they are aiming at a long time ago and designed the game appropriately.
In my opinion they chose the wrong demographic, but that wasn't my decision.
The fact that they chose to ignore a huge wealth of information, available via the fanbase, I personally think is also a mistake, but it was theirs to make, the information we have is probably not a good fit with the new direction they have taken anyway.
The fact that we are not well represented in their chosen target demographic is unfortunate for both us and them, it's unfortunate for us because we will compare the new product with the old and and be so critical of the changes that we won't enjoy the game or in some cases, like mine, won't even bother trying it.
It's unfortunate for EM because we represented guaranteed sales, if only they'd produced a game we wanted, that would have been several million guaranteed units sold on day one then all they'd have needed to do is pull in new players, but they seem to have decided to go for the new players first.
So while the direction taken is unfortunate and in my opinion, a mistake that it's too late to correct.
What it is not is some sort of deliberate snub or calculated insult.
You may feel insulted or snubbed but that's your problem.
If you have legitimate criticism's of what you see being produced then make them you never know EM may listen, but if you start with the "this is an insult" crap you will get precisely nowhere.
Thirith on 30/7/2013 at 12:15
Quote Posted by Esme
...if only they'd produced a game we wanted, that would have been several million guaranteed units sold on day one then all they'd have needed to do is pull in new players...
I take your points and agree with many of them (and I definitely appreciate the more level-headed tone compared to the brigade of people taking this personally), but this one strikes me as an over-estimation of how many old-school
Thief fans are out there that are still playing games. Several million guaranteed units sold on day one? Really?
SubJeff on 30/7/2013 at 12:29
Quote Posted by Esme
Heh
Not seen that quaint 60's reference to women as 'birds' since ... well the 60's
Are you serious? And you live in the UK? This was used extensively in the 80s, less so in the 90s and it's still used all the time.
Starker on 30/7/2013 at 12:34
Quote Posted by Thirith
Also, for the record, I find the Jenivere = Basso's bird thing quite clever, at least as a throwaway reference, what with Jenivere having been Basso's 'bird' to begin with and responding to a birdcall in
Thief 2...
It was Basso who responded to the birdcall, so maybe Thief Reboot isn't the first instance of crossdressing in the series.
Regarding the Reboot, I refer to the madam of the bordello, btw, not Garrett.
Vivian on 30/7/2013 at 12:35
round here we say birds, not bitches
[video=youtube;8UGtlUMMkOU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UGtlUMMkOU[/video]
Chade on 30/7/2013 at 13:01
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
There is a little bit of undead in Thief 2, no?
Yes, that's why I said "assuming you don't count minor occurances", which I think is a decent assumption when people are so dismisive of whatever little bits of old lore make their way into thief 4.
Vae on 30/7/2013 at 13:03
Quote Posted by Chade
T1 is the only game in the series featuring different planes, and T2 doesn't feature undead.
No, all three games featured the Elemental Planes...hence the Elemental Wards, Elemental Spells, Elemental Creatures, and Elemental Crystals...All owe their existence to the Elementals Planes intersecting with the Material Plane (The City and The World)...Also, Viktoria's Forest is part of the Maw of Chaos (Plane of Chaos) in T2, and even in TDS the Trickster God's influence was known with the Rat Beasts (Maw of Chaos creature) visited the Kurshok to reclaim the Crown of Power from King Gruliac, and finding out their entire civilization was swallowed up beneath the earth, due to the insolence of the King...and yes, Undead are in all three games.
All of these cosmological and metaphysical relationships are instrinsic to the experience, whether directly related to the storyline or not.
Quote:
I also
strongly disagree that the struggle between order and chaos is the only thief story worth telling.
The struggle between Order and Chaos is a constant in the THIEF Universe, regardless of story focus...It is a multi-dynamic mechanic that shapes The City and The World.
Quote:
That leaves magic, which sounds like it is being done very tastefully in T4 IMO...
Why would you find the diminishment of a universe fundamental, "tasteful"?
Quote:
...and Garrett, who admittedly looks atrocious and sounds ... bad on average.
Well, at least you got that one right...;)
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
I agree Vae - the target audience is different and they will never capture the same magic. Doesn't mean it can't be a good game though.
Yeah, it could end up being a pretty good game, just not a THIEF game...although I find this unlikely, because even when looking at it as just a game, the limited contextual player mechanics will surely be disheartening.
Dia on 30/7/2013 at 13:10
Quote Posted by svs
I think a game that tries to be mature by adding explicit mature content usually just ends up being less mature.
It's called 'gratuitous'. Anything thrown into a game/movie in a gratuitous manner is done so to distract from the weak aspects of said game or movie.
Quote Posted by Vivian
There's an argument for swearing being just a part of language, however. I swear a lot, and I am neither juvenile nor stupid.
Sorry Viv; wasn't implying you are. I can swear like a truck driver when the need arises; sometimes you just need more colorful language to get a point across. ;) What I was protesting was the fact that the original games were successful without the use of the f-bomb and/or making a brothel a main focal point throughout each game. 'Taffer' worked just fine imo, so to include vulgar expletives in the game is, once again imo, totally unnecessary and just an EM ploy to appeal to the younger set of gamers who use those expletives because in their tiny minds it's cool and makes them appear mature. As far as the brothel is concerned, the prospect of sneaking about a house of ill repute for any length of time just doesn't appeal to me in the least and it sounds as though EM is using sensationalism to reel in gamers who possess the mindsets of 15 yr. olds. The fact that EM devs chose to place this brothel in a former Keeper compound just seems like an added insult. If EM thinks that paying this kind of lip-service to the original games is appealing to some of the hard-core Thief fans, they are seriously mistaken. At least afaic.
SubJeff on 30/7/2013 at 13:32
Given the time it's supposed to parallel I don't think it is gratuitous though. Unless it's full of hardcore scenes you can peek at.
Quote Posted by Vae
Yeah, it could end up being a pretty good game, just not a THIEF game...although I find this unlikely, because even when looking at it as just a game, the limited contextual player mechanics will surely be disheartening.
This is the main issue for me - the gameplay.
I don't mind story reboots if they are done well.
