Chade on 8/8/2013 at 11:04
Quote Posted by Renzatic
But with touch screen only? No. Hell no. I couldn't finish The Fall because playing a fast paced first person/3rd person game that requires tons of buttons to perform split second actions just don't work with touch controls.
That's why Henke and I are proposing some pretty radical changes to the interface, though. The goal is for the game to take control of (almost?) all low level split second actions and leave you inputting just the high level "once every second or two" decisions.
It's a pretty radical change to the formula, but I think it's possible in a thief game, where you generally can (and should!) slow the pace of the game down to whatever level you can handle.
Robert4222 on 8/8/2013 at 14:17
Quote Posted by Chade
That's why Henke and I are proposing some pretty radical changes to the interface, though. The goal is for the game to take control of (almost?) all low level split second actions and leave you inputting just the high level "once every second or two" decisions.
It's a pretty radical change to the formula, but I think it's possible in a thief game, where you generally can (and should!) slow the pace of the game down to whatever level you can handle.
If they're considering doing an iOS version of the game, they really should make it unique and simple on its own way, and not try any kind of mediocre recreation of the console experience. I was very disappointed with what they did in DE: the fall and most players find it hardly playable because of the messy controls, although reviewers claim it to be a high quality software because of the possible action schemes for an iOS game and the overall graphics.
It would be great if they just made it as a DLC for consoles, that was a very bad decision imho
Renzatic, about FFIV, I don't know if I should get it. Some people told me it is pretty hard in terms of difficulty and easy to get lost without a walkthrough (I usually play it when I'm travelling to not get bored)
Renzatic on 8/8/2013 at 19:08
Quote Posted by Chade
That's why Henke and I are proposing some pretty radical changes to the interface, though. The goal is for the game to take control of (almost?) all low level split second actions and leave you inputting just the high level "once every second or two" decisions.
It's a pretty radical change to the formula, but I think it's possible in a thief game, where you generally can (and should!) slow the pace of the game down to whatever level you can handle.
The best and simplest thing to do (in my opinion) would be to nix 1st person entirely. I think Deus Ex would've played far better if they went with a 3rd person perspective with the camera drawn back instead of, as Robert put it, recreate the console/PC experience on a touch device. Without a dedicated controller, it just can't be done without making huge sacrifices to the gameplay.
What you're describing sounds somewhat like a game that'd play itself. That just wouldn't be fun to me. If you take away too much of the challenge, it won't matter how much it mimics the console experience. It'll end up being too boring.
Instead of trying to do that, developers should be tailoring the gameplay around the strengths of touch. 3rd person point 'n click games are perfect for this. Like imagine DX with a 3rd person camera set a ways away from the character, rather than being right over the shoulder. Controls are done via clicks instead of virtual joysticks (which DX:TF has, but it's not done well at all). If you want to look around, you drag one finger about the screen. When you want to move, you click the ground where you want to go. Actions like pressing against walls and barriers for cover could be achieved with double-clicks. A setup like this would give you just about all the control you'd need while playing to the strengths of the platform. If done well, it'd feel completely fluid and natural.
...it'd also work for Thief, though it'd make for a much different feeling game. More like Metal Gear Solid with rope arrows than classic Thief as we currently know it.
Quote Posted by Robert4222
Renzatic, about FFIV, I don't know if I should get it. Some people told me it is pretty hard in terms of difficulty and easy to get lost without a walkthrough (I usually play it when I'm travelling to not get bored)
The DS version was tough as nails, yeah. Probably one of the hardest JRPGs I've ever played (and I loved it for that). Though the iPad/iPhone version is a port of it, they've provided you with three difficulty option to choose from when you start a new game. If you want a more laid back experience, just choose easy, and have fun with it on your terms.
As for a walkthrough...eh. There are a couple of places where it leaves it up to you to explore around to find out what to do next, but it's never super cryptic to the point you'll become flat out stuck without some outside help.
ZylonBane on 8/8/2013 at 21:42
Quote Posted by Chade
Yeah, mobile thief makes a lot of sense.
Right-- a game that's all about moving in the darkness and listening to the environment would be
perfect for a four-inch screen in broad daylight while sitting on the bus.
Chade on 8/8/2013 at 21:45
It would not have the immersion, but a lot of game play could be transferred over.
Renzatic on 8/8/2013 at 22:27
If you're sitting on the bus playing on a 4" smartphone, no. Being snuggled up in bed after dark with a 7"+ tablet? Sure, I could see that being just as immersive as playing on a big monitor.
I used to lose myself in Gameboy games all the time. Zelda, Gargoyles Quest, Sword of Hope. I'd sit back in my chair, pop my headphones on, and play for hours at a time when I was a kid. All on a little 3" green on green screen. There's more than one way to immerse yourself in a form of media.
Robert4222 on 8/8/2013 at 23:00
Quote Posted by Chade
It would not have the immersion, but a lot of game play could be transferred over.
Or recreated specifically for touch devices as Renzatic and I pointed out.
About the point n' click gameplay and the over shoulder camera ideas, It might work pretty well. The only default would be noticing loot in that environment.
Quote:
The DS version was tough as nails, yeah. Probably one of the hardest JRPGs I've ever played (and I loved it for that). Though the iPad/iPhone version is a port of it, they've provided you with three difficulty option to choose from when you start a new game. If you want a more laid back experience, just choose easy, and have fun with it on your terms.
As for a walkthrough...eh. There are a couple of places where it leaves it up to you to explore around to find out what to do next, but it's never super cryptic to the point you'll become flat out stuck without some outside help.
I didn't know there were additional difficulty settings on the iOS version, guess I'll probably download it and enjoy it on easy mode like the jrpg-newbie I am :joke:
Quote:
I used to lose myself in Gameboy games all the time. Zelda, Gargoyles Quest, Sword of Hope. I'd sit back in my chair, pop my headphones on, and play for hours at a time when I was a kid. All on a little 3" green on green screen. There's more than one way to immerse yourself in a form of media.
Me too, I still remember how I used to play Oracle of ages and pokemon red for hours without getting bored at any moment, doing side stuff and exploring. After completing the game and left nothing else to do, well I just replayed them all over again. But now not only I have mostly lost interest in these game genres, but I don't even have patience to play them more than 10 minutes. I miss old days :(
Chade on 9/8/2013 at 10:32
Quote Posted by Renzatic
The best and simplest thing to do (in my opinion) would be to nix 1st person entirely ...What you're describing sounds somewhat like a game that'd play itself ... Instead of trying to do that ... 3rd person point 'n click games are perfect for this. Like imagine DX with a 3rd person camera set a ways away from the character, rather than being right over the shoulder. Controls are done via clicks instead of virtual joysticks (which DX:TF has, but it's not done well at all). If you want to look around, you drag one finger about the screen. When you want to move, you click the ground where you want to go. Actions like pressing against walls and barriers for cover could be achieved with double-clicks.
But Renz, that's pretty much exactly what (I thought) I was suggesting ... :p
(With the addition of the "jump to safe place" option, which I can justify in more depth if you want, which is not to say I'm 100% confident it's a good idea, but I'd want to experiment with it.)
Although I would like to experiment a little bit before concluding that first person was impossible, it certainly does seem that you'd want the possibility to move a short distance in all directions at any time, and an extended third person view does seem the most natural way to accomplish that.
The other option, if we're talking about third person, is switching to the fixed third person viewpoints that you often see in adventure games. The idea of course would be that you can see everything you would possibly need to see from that viewpoint, so you don't have to worry about the player looking around at all. However, I think I'd prefer manual looking around if at all possible: the player should feel like they have to constantly be vigilant in order to observe their surroundings.
I am still concerned that looking around is going to be a little too laborious, though. I wonder if it would be a good idea to be able to swipe in a direction and automatically look at the next "point of interest", which could be a nearby guard, a door to your room, a place where your corridoor bends out of sight, etc ... not sure if adding hiding place to this list would be a good idea. This would make it easy to quickly scan for guards, but you'd need to pay more attention to find loot or other items.
Not saying these are all definately great ideas, but any means. I just think it would be interesting to experiment.
Robert4222 on 9/8/2013 at 12:24
Quote:
a place where your corridoor bends out of sight
Sorry but I didn't get that
Chade on 9/8/2013 at 20:47
Basically any spot a guard could enter the space which is currently visible to you. So you can quickly scan either the guards around you or the places they could appear.
