Sulphur on 13/12/2014 at 07:04
Save stations are a visible mechanic that play into any tension the game might generate by itself. They're generally useful in horror games because the feeling of relief after inching through the previous section of the level and avoiding/defeating the baddies is nearly palpable. It also creates a cyclical loop that helps set you up for the next portion of the game, so you anticipate and hone your reactions better instead of bulling through to the next autosave.
Automated checkpoints are more friendly, but also deflate any tension that the game might have from creating an unsafe environment for you to navigate. Technically, autosaves are great to have in any game; but they're best deployed in action games and puzzlers that require multiple approaches at times to gauge a situation. Having that safety net is important - but in a horror/survival horror game, an automated safety net amounts to someone else holding your hand, instead of leaving it to player agency. The feeling of relief and having earned yourself a reprieve that comes with the sight of a save station up ahead is especially conducive to the atmosphere of the game, IMO.
This is also the reason why most horror games love to keep you working by yourself instead of having continual contact with friendly NPCs - the personal stakes are that much higher when you've earned the progress on your own instead of having the game help you out.
Pyrian on 13/12/2014 at 14:24
Quote Posted by Sulphur
The feeling of relief and having earned yourself a reprieve that comes with the sight of a save station up ahead is especially conducive to the atmosphere of the game, IMO.
I feel exactly the opposite. It takes me out of the game, and gives me no sense of relief. Why would I be relieved? It doesn't protect me. It doesn't keep me from dying. It merely reduces the consequences of death. And how do you keep or maintain a horror atmosphere if you're constantly reminding the player that it hardly matters if they die, anyway?
Sulphur on 13/12/2014 at 15:09
It calls for a certain amount of suspension of disbelief, true. I personally don't see a problem with it, however, especially if the pros - it helps players feel they're metering out their progress, and adds to the tension - outweigh the cons, which is 5 seconds of strained mimesis. It doesn't pull me out of the game because it still de-abstracts to the action of safeguarding your progress, which is the same endpoint regardless of whether it's via station, an autosave, or a quicksave button.
If not breaking mimesis is the ultimate concern, then the best, and simplest compromise, is obviously the quicksave. Save-scumming remains a concern, but that's up to the individual player.
Genocide Qua on 13/12/2014 at 15:40
Really appreciate all the feedback, guys. Lots of good points and different perspectives put here. It’s tempting to design a game to better sway the player into doing the objectives you set for the stage without too much wandering in order to minimize possible exploitation and confusion. So, I try to step back from the game I’m creating and approach it as a possible consumer and be completely neutral about it and bluntly ask myself: Why would anybody care for this game? It’s special to me because it’s my game, of course, but what do other people see? When I play a game and I think I found some sort of secret or shortcut, I tend to save before trying anything just in case it doesn’t work out, but the trade-off is indeed a bit less tension. For me, what makes a game like Demon’s Souls or Dark souls so difficult is not so much the actual battles but rather strategically placed save points that put much stress on the player to make it from one location to the other without dying, doing so loosing much of the souls you need in order to upgrade and thereby losing a possible hour or so of actual play. I do acknowledge that if those games had the option to arbitrarily save where you please, a lot of people, including myself, would take advantage. However, in doing so the tension would not be as intense because the risk of loss is much less meaningful. The game definitely took me back to the frustrations I had with the original Mega Man titles and Ninja Gaiden 1(especially stage 6).
With all that said, I know that I would not like to undermine the players’ intelligence and unnecessarily remove any kind of mystery and the sense of exploration. Hitman: Absolution, for example, really shot itself in the foot by explicitly stating all the different methods available to carry out an assassination in the particular stage. So it drastically distanced itself from the series’ predecessors which encouraged the kind of trial and error sandbox in which we are given some breathing room for exploration. Now, going back to Thief 1 and 2, it is nothing short of amazing what dedicated fans of the series are capable of and the type of game and rules that can organically develop on top of the original game, given that the developer build the game with such open ended possibilities of approaching each level. Take the example of supreme ghosting where somebody like Klatremus and many others who have taken the Thief games and play them in a fundamentally different angle. All of that is made possible by minimizing instances of hand-holding and just letting the player explore. Going back to save states, having the ability to save whenever you please gives a lot of room for cat and mouse play, however, the games still have a lot of different variables that despite the repeated reloading there is enough gameplay uncertainty to keep it interesting every time.
faetal on 16/12/2014 at 16:27
A NSFW tag with a link would be better for stuff like that.
Cool pic though :)
Genocide Qua on 29/6/2016 at 01:39
Sorry, I was in the shower. Anyways, getting back to the project. I've fleshed out the mechanics and story more which I will elaborate on in the future. Here is a costume idea for the protagonist while she is in prison, which is the main setting for the game.
Inline Image:
https://s32.postimg.org/o106lqr6t/13555973_1217332818290951_594815506_o.jpgThis is a side project I have just recently picked up again. I haven't planned to make an official page for it yet until the update was substantial, however, I might as well get it out of the way now and you guys are welcome to follow if interested:
(
https://www.facebook.com/uspgame/)
It will be a first person stealth game with an emphasis on ghosting. I'll update the page when I can and I welcome all of you to get involved. I'm shooting for a rough gameplay prototype in a few months and if you want to beta test and tell me how terrible it is, just let me know.
Cheers.
icemann on 29/6/2016 at 05:04
Second putting a NSFW in the title.
Genocide Qua on 29/6/2016 at 23:33
Appreciate the heads up and assistance
faetal and
icemann. Cheers.
Here is an idea for an actual type of stealth/sneaking suit when she eventually breaks out:
Inline Image:
https://s31.postimg.org/ocqtq4c57/stealth_suit.jpgSulphur on 30/6/2016 at 05:05
Great design. The suit's a bit too showy too be practical for stealth though, especially with the unsubtle splashes of colour throwing parts of her anatomy into relief. It's interesting that she's sexualised, but maybe that's something to explore in the backstory or through elements of the game that don't conflict with each other in principle.
