Subjective Effect on 16/6/2024 at 15:50
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Yes, has the power to make meaningful change
Sorry, who? Hamas? I would agree with that. They just need to renounce violence and focus on peace and developing their nation and eventually things would calm down for them.
The Israelis are doing all kinds of bs in the West Bank which should stop. The situation in the Gaza Strip is very very different, imho.
Nicker on 16/6/2024 at 17:22
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The Israelis are doing all kinds of bs in the West Bank which should stop. The situation in the Gaza Strip is very very different, imho.
The conflict is not restricted to a small geological location or one particular moment in time. It is part of a much larger conflict. If you cannot see the big picture you are missing the point.
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Sorry, who? Hamas? I would agree with that.
I said, the side with the most power has the most options to forge a meaningful solution. That's clearly not Hamas.
Starker on 16/6/2024 at 18:29
Hamas is in no position to bring any solutions, because it doesn't have the support of the people. It seized power by force and by killing their opposition, it wasn't able to get recognition by any of the political forces in Palestine, let alone internationally, and has been until the terror attacks quite unpopular with the Palestinian people themselves, even Gazans. There is a reason Israel preferred Hamas to Fatah and other alternatives, because it served to delegitimise Palestinian statehood aspirations (and of course there was this fantasy where Israel would always be able to control them by stick and carrot).
Subjective Effect on 17/6/2024 at 06:01
Hamas won the elections about 20 years ago didn't it?
They do have power - the power to not attack Israel repeatedly, and that's not something to be sniffed at. They've spent millions on war/terror infrastructure instead of on the nation. The Strip would be a VERY different place if they had different ideas.
And polls in the strip always show significant support for them, don't they? Bit difficult to vote openly without risk in such a place though, I imagine.
Starker on 17/6/2024 at 10:32
They tried to form a legitimate government, but everyone basically refused to work with them, so they staged a military coup. As far as the international community or anyone that really matters is concerned, Hamas is not the legitimate government in Gaza. Also, Hamas is a terrorist organisation -- their whole goal, their raison d'etre, is the continuation and, if at all possible, expansion of the conflict. What Israel is doing now in Gaza and West Bank is all they were hoping would happen and more.
Hamas had around 20% popularity after they took power, nearly twice less than Fatah. It was only after Israel invaded Gaza a couple years later that their popularity started to rise and during the next decades this pattern would repeat themselves -- they'd start to lose popularity and then there would be some conflict with Israel which gave them the boost again up to 40% and more. Before the recent terror attacks, Gazans were also deeply unsatisfied with Hamas and their management of Gaza and a significant portion even wanted Hamas to disband their armed units and replace them with those from the Palestinian Authority (who is the one who should govern Gaza on paper). Well, obviously this heavily depends on who is polling and when and how, so a mountain of salt comes even with the most well-meaning polls.
Subjective Effect on 17/6/2024 at 11:45
Odd, then, that protesters never rail against Hamas, isn't it?
Starker on 17/6/2024 at 13:42
I don't really know how to explain that Hamas isn't a "government" that you can "protest".
SD on 17/6/2024 at 15:59
Hamas are the governing party of Gaza in every meaningful way, in that they operate all the functions of government.
To get back to relevant stuff, Columbia University's Taskforce on Antisemitism should be a real eye-opener for people who think these are nothing more than protests. They're pogroms on American soil. The so-called protestors deserve no less scorn than the insurrectionists of January 6th.
(
https://www.columbiaspectator.com/opinion/2024/05/16/we-hear-you/)
Subjective Effect on 17/6/2024 at 17:16
Quote Posted by Starker
I don't really know how to explain that Hamas isn't a "government" that you can "protest".
Quote Posted by SD
Hamas are the governing party of Gaza in every meaningful way, in that they operate all the functions of government.
SD just answered you for me. But beyond that, you can protest anything. You make a sign e.g. "Hamas Out, Peace In, Free Palestine" and march. You can even make a new chant requesting they stop being violent. You could do this even if they weren't in charge, couldn't you?
Quote Posted by PigLick
Why did SubjEff come back just to rile up shit?
your arguments are old and lacking substance.
Why not just contribute ideas
Seems like a civil discussion to me. Maybe drink less?
