Starker on 13/6/2024 at 17:19
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
It's an hour and twenty minutes long. I watched the first 7 minutes.
Weird flex, but ok.
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
I dismiss these protests because they aren't making anyone in power uncomfortable.
If there's a massive violent response to the protests and widespread condemnation and vilification in the mass media, clearly they are making someone uncomfortable.
RippedPhreak on 13/6/2024 at 17:22
Local governments are going to deploy cops, sure. I'd hardly call it a massive violent response. But my question is, how have the protesters changed Federal government policy/funding toward Israel? If nothing has changed, then no one in power cares.
Starker on 13/6/2024 at 17:38
I mean, just look at the video -- there are plenty of examples of unprovoked violence against the protestors, students and professors alike. And in some cases, the response is clearly massively overblown where the cops outnumber the protestors and even snipers are deployed.
Also, I don't think these particular protests were meant to effect any change in the federal policy as much as they were directed towards the leadership of the colleges. As stated by some of the protestors in the video themselves, basically their goal was for their issues to be heard and considered, nothing more. Which is why the overblown response to it in many cases is so baffling.
As for the protests being meaningless, same could be said for any amount of activism -- people protesting war, climate change, etc. Sometimes the goal itself is taking action, building community, etc. And what is the alternative -- don't care about the issues that you care about, just shut up and ignore it?
Also, you simply assume that they are just doing this to harass people and make themselves feel good, but I would hardly think people are willing to go and be the target for violence and widespread national mockery and vilification just because they want to feel good about themselves. In fact, it rather sounds fairly cynical and dismissive.
Azaran on 13/6/2024 at 17:48
Quote Posted by Starker
Also, you simply assume that they are just doing this to harass people and make themselves feel good, but I would hardly think people are willing to go and be the target for violence and widespread national mockery and vilification just because they want to feel good about themselves.
Certain causes have the numbers, and know they most likely won't face serious backlash. And I'm pretty sure any crackdowns on them have been the exception, not the rule. Here they've had protests every single weekend, and are given free reign. Granted, most have been peaceful, but there's a major university where Jewish students now face regular harassment and the administration looks the other way on antisemitic incidents.
I wonder if there'd be so many protests if the religions were reversed?
RippedPhreak on 13/6/2024 at 17:58
Quote:
I don't think these particular protests were meant to effect any change in the federal policy as much as they were directed towards the leadership of the colleges.
And how does that stop the war in Israel or Gaza? It doesn't, hence it's meaningless. Do they think if they scare the head administrator at UCLA into calling the CEO of Raytheon to ask him to stop making missiles, it's actually going to happen? This is all just an excuse to hang around and look cool in front of liberal co-eds.
Quote:
same could be said for any amount of activism -- people protesting war, climate change, etc. Sometimes the goal itself is taking action, building community, etc. And what is the alternative -- don't care about the issues that you care about, just shut up and ignore it?
I told you what the alternative is: Go right to
whoever is actually making the decision, and hurt them, badly. But again, they might
get in trouble if they did that. Easier to yell at Jewish students and chase them off campus (while safely outnumbering them twenty to one of course).
Quote:
it rather sounds fairly cynical and dismissive.
Yes I started my post by saying I was being dismissive of these protests.
Starker on 13/6/2024 at 18:05
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
And how does that stop the war in Israel or Gaza? It doesn't, hence it's meaningless. Do they think if they scare the head administrator at UCLA into calling the CEO of Raytheon to ask him to stop making missiles, it's actually going to happen? This is all just an excuse to hang around and look cool in front of liberal co-eds.
But this is not that the goal of the protests was in the first place. I don't think anybody there thought they were going to make Raytheon stop producing bombs or the US government stop giving them to Israel or Israel using them on civilians.
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
I told you what the alternative is: Go right to whoever is actually making the decision, and hurt them, badly. But again, they might get in trouble if they did that. Easier to yell at Jewish students and chase them off campus (while safely outnumbering them twenty to one of course).
Terrorism rarely brings the results that people want, unless the goal is to spread more conflict and to hurt people.
RippedPhreak on 13/6/2024 at 18:10
Well if the point of your "protest" is just to be heard, then it's nothing but pointless posturing. If you're not going to change anything, then why do it unless you just want to make kewl Tiktok content.
Quote:
Terrorism rarely brings the results that people want, unless the goal is to spread more conflict and to hurt people.
I thought the left lived by the maxim of "by any means necessary."
Subjective Effect on 13/6/2024 at 18:18
It's just too long to and from the first few minutes it seems needlessly so. The host also ignored the concerns of the people he's sampled, which I think are sometimes valid concerns even if you (like me) agree there should be a permanent cease-fire.
Do you not think it extremely odd for people at a protest to not know what the protest is for? Saying "you'd better ask the organisers" is far beyond unreasonable, it's unintelligent. Outrageous even.
I'm in support of the right to protest, and some of the protest suppression (in the USA and elsewhere) seems pretty disproportionate and draconian, but I think using your brain whilst doing it is kind of essential.
SD on 13/6/2024 at 18:19
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
I dismiss these protests because they aren't making anyone in power uncomfortable.
But they're making Jews uncomfortable, and to these protestors with their conspiracy theories, that's the same thing.
Starker on 13/6/2024 at 18:33
Again, what is the alternative, if you have an issue with something... obedient compliance? Maybe things aren't going to change if you make yourself heard, but of nobody ever says anything, then nothing is definitely going to change. You never know if you can make a change unless you try in the first place.
The point is sometimes to show that not everybody is supporting something. Otherwise it's easy to assume the opposite and the people making the decisions might go even further if they assume unanimous support. Also, it's not an all or nothing proposal. If you can bring about even some change, any change, even if it's not a complete reversal, then it might be worth it.
