Qooper on 14/11/2023 at 09:28
I haven't heard any 5G conspiracies here. An American friend that I sometimes talk with via WhatsApp said 5G was harmful, but I just figured he was very sensitive to EM-radiation. I kinda remember the conversation being annoying and I probably changed the topic. This was more than a year ago so it's hard to remember exactly.
When it comes to COVID, there was some controversy about the measures the government took, and many didn't like the fact that our prime minister at the time wanted to enforce stricter policies but at the same time was hanging out in bars drinking Corona-beer. That's about it. I think we're just a boring country.
Oh, and it's true there is some anti-EU sentiment here. That I have heard about for sure. But I wouldn't call all of it unreasonable. Farmers are already frustrated due to silly EU directives that are completely out of place in the farming climate of Finland. The Finn's party is in fact for Finland leaving the EU, at least in principle, but at the same time they consider it unrealistic at the moment.
EDIT: But this is Not The News. This is just what I've experienced as a citizen of Finland, what I've heard from friends and family. Although I don't hear much in general, since I don't go out much. I just sit at home on my computer working.
Tocky on 14/11/2023 at 19:41
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
I merely stated that Twitter used to ban anyone who posted "misinformation," as defined by the government. Even if that information later turned out to be true. You started ranting about QAnon, I did not bring that up.
What "information" would that be? Information of the not true variety? Wasn't that during Trumps presidency? So that would be Trumps government? Why are you such a misinformation fan? Have you an example of this misinformation which turned out to be true? I've seen lies that were later claimed to be true though they were still lies but none of this "information". Is this "information" the lie that Pelosi's husband was using a gay sex worker? Remember that one that Elon supported as true though it was a lie? So which lie is now true?
Cipheron on 15/11/2023 at 09:55
Quote Posted by Qooper
I haven't heard any 5G conspiracies here. An American friend that I sometimes talk with via WhatsApp said 5G was harmful, but I just figured he was very sensitive to EM-radiation. I kinda remember the conversation being annoying and I probably changed the topic. This was more than a year ago so it's hard to remember exactly.
the real question then is why they're specifically sensitive to 24 - 30 GHz em radiation, but not at all sensitive between the 300 GHz - 430000 GHz range, which is where infrared emanations lie. i.e. people are being continuously bombarded with particles packing up to 15000 times as much energy as those 5G particles, yet don't seem to report any ill effects.
In a recent online debate someone linked an article about proven harms of RF frequencies, but I looked over what they did, and they bombarded rats from the time they were in the womb with RF beams for 23 hours a day, at high levels enough to raise their body temperature by 1 degree. Some of the rats developed heart and circulatory problems. But it's a poorly designed study because they can't rule out the idea that they merely cooked the rats, and it had nothing to do with the cellphone frequencies they used: the choice of frequency they used was based on the conclusion they were testing.
It would be like claiming a study showed copper is harmful to rats, because every day you hit them 10 times with a copper hammer, and you had a control group that didn't get hit with hammers at all. They could also be guilty of "p-hacking" because they didn't go in looking for a SINGLE disease, they tested them for every possible disease they could think of, then found a couple that have p > 0.05. And they broke the rats into sub-groups then tested each sub-group for every disease, and reported sub-groups for which the result was significant, even if the result wasn't significant for the overall group. Does that sound like sketchy science to the people who know more about it than me?
Another thing is that I've seen is some people try and get around the infrared problem by saying the longer wavelengths / lower frequency of RF energy WAS the problem. So the higher frequency / shorter wavelength Infra-Red energy not causing this effect can be glossed over. But then with 5G they suddenly revert back to high-frequency being worse, using basically the same argument for why visible light is harmless but UV isn't. Considering that this stuff is basically the same stuff as visible light but at a very low frequency, that argument isn't coherent.
As a note, infra-red goes from 300 GHz - 430000 GHz, it accounts for 99.93% of the frequency bands below visible light, yet we're supposed to believe this weird stuff only happens in the lowest 0.07% of the frequency bands, and has its own ups and downs of dangerous "high frequency" hotspots.
Qooper on 15/11/2023 at 10:20
Quote Posted by Cipheron
the real question then is why they're specifically sensitive to 24 - 30 GHz em radiation, but not at all sensitive between the 300 GHz - 430000 GHz range, which is where infrared emanations lie. i.e. people are being continuously bombarded with particles packing up to 15000 times as much energy as those 5G particles, yet don't seem to report any ill effects.
Sure, the radiation, both visible and outside the visible range, we receive from the sun is much stronger than what a 5G relay emits. My point was that when he said 5G was dangerous, I didn't suspect that there was some sort of 5G conspiracy behind his words. But now that I think more about our conversations from that time, he seemed very passionate about a lot of things that were irrelevant to me. I live in Finland, and I have no reason to put such weight and emphasis on something like 5G. It seems weird to focus on something like that. Subconsciously I probably think that if it's gotten wide commercial adoption here, it means that our experts have deemed it safe.
I just remember being very annoyed at him. I guess I find it annoying when people take something very specific + a suspicion they have about it, and then jump to giant conclusions and start forming very long chains of deductions as if it was certain that their conclusions and thinking are correct and solid. This energetic, passionate confidence on such rickety bridges just annoys me greatly, and my reaction is to strongly disregard it, or at least attempt to.
Azaran on 15/11/2023 at 13:41
I knew a guy who couldn't be around smartphones for long, or he'd start feeling nauseous (it wasn't psychological). He had hypersensitivity to electromagnetic waves. He uses a special low emission phone.
Cipheron on 15/11/2023 at 14:48
As far as I'm aware, no credible studies have backed up people who claim sensitivity to that.
(
https://www.healthline.com/health/allergic-to-electricity#what-the-science-says)
Quote:
In a 2018 study, people with self-diagnosed EHS were exposed to EMFs from mobile and radio systems, as well as sham (fake) signals. The participants reported more symptoms when they thought each station was on — which suggests they were unable to tell when they were exposed to EMFs.
Another 2017 study found similar results. Participants with self-reported EHS were exposed to EMFs and fake frequencies in a random pattern. None of the participants could indicate when they were being exposed to real EMFs.
According to a 2020 review, the belief that EMFs are harmful might cause a nocebo effect. This occurs when a person experiences negative symptoms from a treatment due to negative beliefs about that treatment.
It's one of those things where the preliminary results evaporate any time they do a well-controlled study, and the frequency of studies which say "yeah maybe" is just going down as they get their shit together with better controls on the studies.
So ... yeah, not actually likely that the "knew a guy" guy is "the one" who if they did the same studies would prove EMS is a real, measurable effect. After all, everyone in those studies thought they were "the one" too.
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EDIT: Just to make the point, you can actually work out how much radiation is coming out of a wall at 25 degrees C.
Using the Stefan-Boltzman law, P = A * M = A * epsilon * sigma * T^4
P = Power in Watts
A = Area in meters squared
epsilon = the thermal emissivity of the surface
sigma = the Stefan-Boltzman constant, 5.670 × 10^−8
T = Temperature in Kelvin.
So, taking a 1 meter square patch of wall, with emissivity = 0.8 for typical bricks, and Temperature of 298 Kelvin:
P = 0.8 * 298^4 * 5.670 × 10^−8 = 350 Watts of power.
So ... each square meter of wall, floor and ceiling of your room is constantly bombarding you with about 350 watts of power in the form of radiation.
If you're in a 3x3x4 meter room, there are 66 square meters of surface area, so roughly 23 kilowatts of radiation coming out of the walls. Compared that to the 0.5 - 3.0 watts of signal a cellphone emits. The fact is, cellphones have extremely sensitive and specific detectors to pick up those signals, they use the lowest amount of power possible and for the signal to still be detected ... because of course they do.
Just as a sanity check, this is the article on Emissivity:
(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissivity)
Quote:
The surface of a perfect black body (with an emissivity of 1) emits thermal radiation at the rate of approximately 448 watts per square metre (W/m2) at a room temperature of 25 °C
The 350 watts / m2 is because we're assuming the walls in the room have lower emissivity.
Azaran on 15/11/2023 at 15:34
If it's worth anything, he came to my home a few times, and I had put my phone away in another room most of them, he was fine. The one time I inadvertently left it on me (he didn't know I did), he soon started feeling symptoms. Unless he caught a glimpse of the edge of the phone in my pocket, and nocebo kicked in?
Qooper on 15/11/2023 at 17:15
But still these people have real symptoms, and whether or not they're caused by EM-radiation, it is what they suspect. I have a close relative who couldn't use her old phone without a hands-free because it caused her a headache each time after a few minutes of talking.
I haven't really given this very much thought, but now that we're on the topic, what do I think? Well, I have no reason to believe she was lying, and although I'm skeptical that it was the phone that caused it, I wouldn't rule it out either. And I know the physics, I'm an engineer. Reality is very complex, the human body especially. I don't know, I haven't done extensive measurements when someone has experienced pain from EM-radiation. Also I'm not a medical doctor.
EDIT: I don't think 5G is dangerous, but it might be at least plausible that certain frequencies could cause pain to certain individuals the same way some people are sensitive to bright, sharp lights. They might get a migraine, even though it's not permanently harmful. Something in the brain resonates, I don't know. Like I said I'm not a medical doctor.
Pyrian on 16/11/2023 at 04:08
From what I've seen, it appears to be a symptom of anxiety problems.
Tocky on 16/11/2023 at 19:04
Also featured on episodes of Better Call Saul. Apparently everything needs to be wrapped in tinfoil. Tinfoil is such a miracle cure for that particular anxiety.
