Not The News - TTLG Forums

Jeshibu on 12/2/2023 at 10:22

Notoriously, spree shooters are typically expert speed shooters. Highly skilled people can reload fast, so therefore we should just not do anything about magazine sizes.
And it's good that nobody ever uses duffel bags, otherwise assault rifles would be relatively easy to conceal still. Phew.
Instead, we should just have an arms race among civilians and police. That'll really solve the issue. Get some more toddler v parent shootings, some more neighbor v neighbor ones too, and while we're at it, some more cop v unarmed civilian ones because who can tell who has a gun or not?

Starker on 12/2/2023 at 13:38

Hence the longest-running The Onion article: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22No_Way_to_Prevent_This%22,_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens)

Anarchic Fox on 12/2/2023 at 17:33

Quote Posted by Draxil

What is an "assault rifle", Fox? Define it.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle) An assault rifle is a selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine.

Quote Posted by Draxil

Regardless, an insignificant amount of gun related crime is committed with "assault rifles", because quelle surprise, hiding a 36+ inch rifle on your body isn't exactly easy. Look it up.

Quote Posted by Draxil

If progressives were serious about reducing gun crime, they'd target handguns. They're not, and they don't.

Progressives focus on eliminating the most heinous gun crimes, which I've shown to overwhelmingly involve assault rifles. However, some do target handguns as well; personally, I'm on the fence about whether semi-automatic pistols should fall under second-amendment protection. Once again, this shows that not only do you rarely interact with progressives, you've got some kind of golem inhabiting your mind that makes you think you do understand us.

Quote Posted by Draxil

If they were serious about reducing gun crime, they'd press for enforcement of straw purchases and felonious gun purchases (ala Hunter Biden). They're not, and they don't.

I don't know what this part of your reply is talking about.

Quote Posted by Draxil

If they were serious, they'd stop cashless bail and plea deals for felonious possession of firearms. They're not, and they don't.

The prison industry is part of the police state, and this part of the thread arose out of discussions decrying that police state. You should not expect progressives to advance one cause (firearm control) by giving up in another (the prison industry and the police state). In addition, your point relies on the unfounded idea that harsher sentencing is an effective deterrent to crime. It is not.

RippedPhreak on 12/2/2023 at 18:26

Quote:

Progressives focus on eliminating the most heinous gun crimes, which I've shown to overwhelmingly involve assault rifles.

You're focused on the few most sensational incidents, so you've shown nothing. America's gun crime epidemic is the result of drug gangs fighting it out for territory, or opportunistic crimes such as carjacking and street robbery. Which is virtually all committed by handguns.

For example Chicago had 3,555 shootings in 2021 and 2,832 shootings in 2022. Almost all of those were committed via handgun. And that's just one city. Add in Baltimore, Denver, Atlanta, NYC, Los Angeles, etc and your "ten most deadly shootings" will be lost in an endless ocean of handguns.

Progressives can only see rifles, obsess over rifles, because their class enemy, the working-class white suburban man, likes to have rifles for hunting or range shooting.

Draxil on 13/2/2023 at 02:47

Quote Posted by Anarchic Fox

Great first part of your post, as regards to the definition of "assault rifle". None of the killers used "assault rifles" by the definition you provided, which was remarkably accurate. AR-15's are not "assault rifles". They are not "select fire". I know you're copying and pasting things you have no clue about, but it actually does mean something.

Quote:

Um hmmm. The rifle:handgun ratio of murders in the US is about 18:1, per most recent FBI stats of 2019. Less than 400 rifle murders in a population of 340,000,000. I'm ok with that, actually. About 1 in a million seems reasonable. The "Hunter Biden" portion of the post is to illustrate that, shock, criminal tendencies overlap. Drugs, guns, prostitution, etc.

The prison industry is part of the police state, and this part of the thread arose out of discussions decrying that police state. You should not expect progressives to advance one cause (firearm control) by giving up in another (the prison industry and the police state). In addition, your point relies on the unfounded idea that harsher sentencing is an effective deterrent to crime. It is not.

Yeah, it actually is. If you're in jail, you're not harming the general populace. I can't help if progressive goals are in conflict--that's on you. You can try to dress it up, move the goal posts, whatever. I'd be thrilled if you would look up the average felony rate of convicted murderers in Chicago or New York. It's nuts. There are violent felonts roaming steets who should be in jail, who are released due to the fact that the city doesn't want to appear racist. Reap what you sow.

Anarchic Fox on 13/2/2023 at 04:23

Quote Posted by Draxil

Going one link deeper into Wikipedia, the (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_fire) page on selective fire says: "The selective-fire function was later seen in the Russian AK-47 (designed in 1946), the Belgian FN FAL (designed 1947-53) the British EM-2 (designed in 1948), and the U.S. AR-10 (designed in 1957) and its AR derivatives." Note the last items on that list.

Quote Posted by Draxil

The intent of banning assault rifles is to make the most horrific events less deadly. It won't budge the overall homicide statistics, but that's not the intent.

Quote Posted by Draxil

Yeah, it actually is. If you're in jail, you're not harming the general populace.

I stated my point more broadly than I should have. I want sentencing reduction and bail reform for nonviolent crimes. In the bit that I quoted, you were talking about cashless bail and firearm possession. Bail reform, which I support, is exclusively for nonviolent crime.

However, when I went looking for statistics, I found that the broader point is true too. (https://www.brennancenter.org/media/230/download) This report, whose methodology looks sound to me, concludes: "This report demonstrates that when other variables are controlled for, increasing incarceration had a minimal effect on reducing property crime in the 1990s and no effect on violent crime. In the 2000s, increased incarceration had no effect on violent crime and accounted for less than one-hundredth of the decade's property crime drop."

Quote:

I can't help if progressive goals are in conflict--that's on you. You can try to dress it up, move the goal posts, whatever. I'd be thrilled if you would look up the average felony rate of convicted murderers in Chicago or New York. It's nuts. There are violent felonts roaming steets who should be in jail, who are released due to the fact that the city doesn't want to appear racist. Reap what you sow.

I did look up information on them, and I found that the recent increase in homicide rates is nationwide. The largest increases occurred in Montana, South Dakota, and Kentucky, which for some reason I don't hear named along with NY and Chicago. (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/27/what-we-know-about-the-increase-in-u-s-murders-in-2020/) Here is a collection of information on the topic.