Lady Rowena on 15/7/2013 at 10:47

---

I'm with you with this one. One great thing about Thief games is FREEDOM. There are not fricking moral judgements, no punisment for your actions. You can do what you want, as long as the objectives don't forbid you to do a particular action.
The developers gave you several tools to help you through the game, I don't see any reason to not use them.

No one is entitled to establish which is the right way to play IMO.

Hamadriyad on 15/7/2013 at 14:19

---

May the Builder be with you Brother Goldmoon! ;)

@Flavia
Yes, they are there, but even so, I don't think killing them (haunts and bugbeasts) makes you an amateur, and damages to stealth experience.
That's because:
-Hammer Haunts are pure evil, and soul of Brother Murus can't find peace because of them. (as far as I remember, it's been a while)
-Bugbeasts are evil too, Trickster's minions, they are killing every Hammerites, and other people who they encounter. Same for Keeper Enforcers.
So you are killing them for saving other lifes, not yours. (killing bugbeasts is for your life though, but makes no difference, they are evil) Those objectives are meaningful within the context.
İn expert difficulty, LGS doesn't allow you to kill any human being, and says, If you do that, you are a murderer, not a thief, an amateur. If you want to kill, than what you have to do is to play in lower difficulties. But you always feel that you are doing it wrong. They don't punish you but that feeling remains. If you wan to feel like a master thief, than you have to be stealthy as much as possible.
And what EM do:
XP points for headshots! That is much worse than those objectives above, and makes no sense within any context. Encourages killing. (it seems, so far. We will see how that stupid XP system works)
Focus: You don't have a sword, but you have this. Yes, you don't have to use it, but they are there! Use it or don't, they are dumbing down the game and that is a fact. They are giving you focus, cool 3rd person takedowns you can watch, XP for headshots. They have no place in any stealth game let alone Thief. Do you think I would say something negative If they give more arsenal than the others? No. But these, they are so gamey handholders.
About the sword, carrying a sword makes perfect sense. think about universe of Thief. Zombies, haunts, demi-gods, various creatures which we don't know anything about their strength, hearing, seeing, smelling abilities, and maybe other senses. I wouldn't go anywhere without a sword.
But of course, since EM decided to throw all of them out of the window, sword is also may not be necessary.
Also in old Thief games, you use your sword to cutting banners, smashing crates etc. Now we have hands, we'll see If those hands can reveal secrets behind banners.

I am not saying Thief is just for stealth. You can kill everyone If you want to, in lower difficulties. But Thief is a stealth experience, it comes first. And they have no gamey handholders. (Like bloody focus which you can see footsteps. :mad: ) EM is not only encouraging action, also makes stealth easy. (you can't fall to your death accidentally, jumping is limited, hot spot rope arrows...)
So I have a strong feeling that stealth in new Thief won't satisfy me. But is not my only problem with this reboot.

No, by the way, I am not a sister. I know dryads are female spirits. But I choose this name long before I learn its true meaning, for another reason. And I stick with it since then.

legoman on 15/7/2013 at 16:28

---

That's why we need tough enemies with little options for combat such that stealth is relevant in the realms of survival :)