Esme on 14/7/2013 at 21:54
I'd settle for a few of the people curently in charge being replaced
Chade on 14/7/2013 at 22:23
Quote Posted by Dia
Basically, anyone from the EM forums who suddenly joins TTLG and continues to prattle on about all the wonderful ways in which T4 is truly a Thief game is pretty much suspected of being nothing more than another EM supporter who's here to 'shout-down' those of us who are less than thrilled with what EM is doing with T4 ... It just seems oddly coincidental that one of EM's Mods gets banned here and suddenly we have an influx of EM moderators and other pro-EM forum members joining TTLG
Come on, Dia. Name me
one time that any of the recent EM guys posted enough to "shout down" anyone. The only people shouting were us. It was frankly disgraceful. I don't know how you guys got treated on their forums, and I don't really care. We don't need to let that sort of behavior define us.
Viki was banned months before any of the new guys arrived. A lot happened in between Viki being banned and the new guys arriving. They openly admitted that they all arrived as once because they talked to one another and decided to come here. There are no "odd coincidences" anywhere in sight.
Dia on 15/7/2013 at 00:13
b1skit, ashpolt, skyhopping(er?), to name a few. And yes, more than one of them referenced their EM colleague and former TTLG member as one of the reasons they came 'over' to see what was going on. b1skit refuses to answer anymore questions here, from what I've heard; no big deal since the answers were starting to sound suspiciously like, 'We can't tell you that, but you'll love it when you find out', and 'Just let me check on that & I'll get back to you' (which didn't happen - at least not in a way that answered the question), or somesuch. And what was that blatant plea that we all start sending him friend requests? I'm trying to remember the nicks of two of a certain former TTLG member's friends who joined immediately after she was banned, wherein each tried having a go at a few of us, but then left never to return after they were warned no one was going to tolerate that bull. I mean they both came here with their guns already cocked, loaded, and aimed and it was obvious they weren't here to discuss T4. Dang! I am so bad with names sometimes. Ask Brethren about the MO's of certain new (EM) members here, Chade, he was astute enough to call a spade a spade. I have no problem with people from EM forums becoming members here because they really are fans of the Thief games. But I do have a problem with those who come here trying to force their pro-T4 rainbows and unicorns down our throats and then become condescending and actually insulting after we voice our opinions to the contrary. It was becoming so damned obvious and more Taffers than myself were noticing. It was as though they were so obviously trying to do damage control after the news EM released about T4 wasn't as well received as they'd hoped. Yes, imo they were the ones trying to shout down our doubts and reservations about T4. All we did was defend our opinions.
I admire you for wanting to give the benefit of a doubt, but either you weren't paying attention or in your open mindedness fell for their sunshine and lollipops, hail fellow jolly well met crap. Face it, TTLG has credibility and I have a feeling that while that may not matter in the actual creation of T4, it still irks certain EM people that TTLG hasn't fully (as in 100%) embraced what they're doing to T4. Whatever. I'm not going to cave and say I like something, that I'm looking forward to something, or that I endorse something when I really, truly don't. I have just as much right to my opinions as anyone else, but to be condescended to, repeatedly called negative even after I've pointed out valid reasons for my opinions, then to be insulted on top of all that ... well .... no. Just no.
I honestly admire your attempts to remain open-minded and objective about T4, btw. Kudos. But I've seen/heard/read enough to know T4 isn't for me. I keep coming back in hopes that something major might have changed and that EM has decided to make the Thief game they promised they'd make in the beginning, right after T4 was announced. Either that, or that EM has decided to re-name the game and main protagonist. One can always hope, right?
TriangleTooth on 15/7/2013 at 01:30
Hm... I dislike much of the new game, but feel there's little more I can decide on until new details emerge, unfortunately EM have something of a secrecy policy regarding the game.
I'm not entirely comfortable with how either 'side' here is behaving - perhaps it's just the terminology being thrown around that seems a tad over-the-top. I dislike the idea that age/time spent on the forum makes right, so I don't like talk of older members having greater opinions, yet I also find the pro-EM people too far focused on pissing off the other side somewhat. At the same time, sometimes it almost ventures into conspiracy that EM are deliberately putting effort into subverting these forums - I would assert that pro-EMs are doing this on their own, EM would be stupid to waste resources like this (this is a small forum board in the grand scheme of things and appealing to it won't make significant money). I also think that they honestly do think they're making every effort to make the game they want, which I would applaud as it's the thinking that made Thief... if it were an original title.
Thief did indeed allow for and in some cases force aggressive behaviour - yes Murus can be skipped but you're evidently not supposed to skip him. Though the focus was still supposed to be (in my opinion) on stealthy kills when killing was to be done. I'd call it flexibility - LGS weren't comfortable with a pure stealth game's potential yet so mixed it up a bit. Also, they probably didn't go in knowing how far it'd go - stealth was mostly uncommon in games before, they likely had no idea what they were making - Thief was experimental, and while LGS are imo legendary, they were still flawed humans who were just trying to make a game they weren't sure about. Still, with Thief 2 they focused much more on stealth while still keeping in the mechanics for some familiarity and to let people new to stealth games ease their way into the method of thinking.
In the end I'll have to judge this thing on release, or speak more when they release new info. I have high expectations of a Thief game. I love Thief 1, 2 was good but rather bland towards the end, missing some of the atmosphere of 1, while 3 only really had atmosphere and story going for it, with some nice ideas held back by bad gameplay decisions. 4 has some aspects of the classics, but from what I've seen I fear it's not enough.
I guess we'll just have to see.
Chade on 15/7/2013 at 02:22
Quote Posted by Dia
b1skit, ashpolt, skyhopping(er?), to name a few. And yes, more than one of them referenced their EM colleague and former TTLG member as one of the reasons they came 'over' to see what was going on ... I'm trying to remember the nicks of two of a certain former TTLG member's friends who joined immediately after she was banned, wherein each tried having a go at a few of us, but then left never to return after they were warned no one was going to tolerate that bull.
Coming over to "see what was going on" wouldn't surprise me and I don't see the problem. Coming over to "have a go at a few of us" would be a different matter, of course, but you'll have to point me to where it happened because I don't remember that, and I was reading the forums at that time.
Quote Posted by Dia
But I do have a problem with those who come here trying to force their pro-T4 rainbows and unicorns down our throats and then become condescending and actually insulting after we voice our opinions to the contrary
Ok, I
do remember these conversations, and I stand by my comment that they weren't forcing anything down our throats, and that we were behaving badly. Frankly, most of the people I saw "getting insulted" were just making an excuse to be aggressive. So b1skit thinks we are exaggerating and hysterical ... is that an insult by our standards now? Quick, somebody tell the mods! It's sure going to be a lot of work deleting half the posts in this forum ... compared to the invectives being leveled at him, b1skit's statement was extremely minor.
Quote Posted by Dia
it still irks certain EM people that TTLG hasn't fully (as in 100%) embraced what they're doing to T4. Whatever. I'm not going to cave and say I like something, that I'm looking forward to something, or that I endorse something when I really, truly don't.
Trying to convince people that thief 4 is ok is b1skit's job, and I'm sure he'd love it if he could change your mind. But he has no way of making you "cave" and agree with him. I don't understand what you're worried about here. Of course you don't have to endorse thief 4 unless you want to ... no?
Dia on 15/7/2013 at 02:40
You're right about one thing; no one can change my mind for me. I know what happened, what was said, not said, etc., and I suppose it's a matter of perspective. I'm tired of arguing about this, though. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who attempts to remain objective, for the most part, as long as they respect my right to my own opinion while they're at it.
Peace.
Chade on 15/7/2013 at 02:50
Fair enough. :)
And I absolutely respect your right to have an opinion ...
4 feihT yuB ...
Dia on 15/7/2013 at 03:19
You're evil.
<3
Goldmoon Dawn on 15/7/2013 at 03:31
Quote Posted by Hamadriyad
(yeah, we are taffing cult!) Yes we are fanatics (fan is short for fanatic you know that right?)
:ebil:
Thou speakest true, Brother Hamadriyad.
Those who ignorantly undermine the sheer greatness of The Dark Project smash themselves with their own efforts, just as the fruit falling from the tree dashes itself on the rocks below.
The time shall come, when the hordes of misguided souls does fall upon us. At that time, we must remain ever vigilant in our task to cleanse these confused souls and convert them to the majestic legacy of our mystic forefathers.
I myself have already begun initial preparations in The Cloister and solemnly await the next crop of converts.
Our burden is heaviest now...
Flavia on 15/7/2013 at 10:14
Quote Posted by Hamadriyad
Kill all haunts is an objective from Brother Murus, which you can avoid. Kill all bugbeasts is an objective that appears after you killed a bugbeast, which again you can avoid.
BUT IT'S
F******* THERE! It's one of the options given us by LGS. FIGHTING is one of the options. ACTION is on of the options. Saying that first "true" Thiefs were action-free (as opposed to new Thief) is
BULLSHIT. Actually new Thief seems better in that regard, since Garrett won't even have sword or dagger and I seriously doubt that there will be objectives such as "kill X" - even OPTIONAL.
I'm sick to death by people trying to turn this game into something it isn't (and I'm not talking abouth EM - they don't touch my game, only make a different one). It is NOT pure stealth experience - you made it pure stealth. And if anything its YOUR problem and EM doesen't have to conform to it at all.
But of course, you're free to believe that first Thiefs were quintessence of stealth while new one will be actionn-packed-assassin-parkour-emo-ninja-lol-fag. Whatever :rolleyes:
GD: isn't Hamadriyad a sister?
