legoman on 14/7/2013 at 12:50
Quote Posted by Vae
EM are making combat part of the interactice experience, as a preferred option...rather than making combat a feared and relctant option.
The same as lgs then, given the variety of weapons and combat options in the first two games.
A specific example to hammer this point home, return to the cathedral, multiple times must one pass through st yoras. What's easiest option, ghosting or busting out the holy water, fire arrows, mines, flashbombs and clearing the path on the first pass?
Choosing to ghost is a self imposed handicap and EM have stated multiple times that this is an option.
Flavia on 14/7/2013 at 13:05
Quote Posted by Vae
You are a dim-witted fool, to think that killing non-human entities circumvents the viability of the stealth challenge.
You are a dim-witted fool, to think that you sucking at combat circumvents the viability of the action challenge.
Vae on 14/7/2013 at 13:15
Quote Posted by legoman
The same as lgs then, given the variety of weapons and combat options in the first two games.
A specific example to hammer this point home, return to the cathedral, multiple times must one pass through st yoras. What's easiest option, ghosting or busting out the holy water, fire arrows, mines, flashbombs and clearing the path on the first pass?
I have determined, due to your lack of ability to perceive the fundamental differences between NuThief and THIEF, your fulfillment as an amusement.
Please stay with us, as you will be appreciated for the unwittingly fool that you are.
Quote Posted by Flavia
You are a dim-witted fool, to think that you sucking at combat circumvents the viability of the action challenge.
It amuses me, that you adopt my verbiage, as a desperate counteraction.
I would run circles around you, if it weren't for your embarrassingly misplaced conception that there is a primary "action challenge" in a THIEF game...:laff:
Dia on 14/7/2013 at 13:29
Quote Posted by legoman
I think your missing the point, the number of posts someone makes doesn't necessarily correlate with understanding. As such, why do we regularly see people disputed upon offering a contradictory opinion on the basis of how long they have been members on ttlg?
No, actually you're the one who's missed the point. I guess the best way to explain it would be to borrow a quote from another thread.
Quote:
So to recap, EM decides to send a group of "community" representatives to play the new Thief game at E3, and they decide to send:
-4 official moderators
-1 guy who's never posted in the Thief forums before, EVER, either here or EM's boards (but he's a real big DXHR fan, so I guess that's supposed to mean something).
Huh?
Basically, anyone from the EM forums who suddenly joins TTLG and continues to prattle on about all the wonderful ways in which T4 is truly a Thief game is pretty much suspected of being nothing more than another EM supporter who's here to 'shout-down' those of us who are less than thrilled with what EM is doing with T4. Ergo, the remarks about certain 'new' members. You're not going to change the minds of those of us who don't like what we've seen (heard & read) regarding T4, if that's the real reason you've just recently joined, of course. Though I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. It just seems oddly coincidental that one of EM's Mods gets banned here and suddenly we have an influx of EM moderators and other pro-EM forum members joining TTLG - new members who can't seem to find anything to question about T4 and continue to spout all of the upcoming game's merits to the point that they sound as though they're reciting by rote. Guess those of us who aren't happy about what EM has done with T4 are tired of having EM representatives call us 'negative' and refer to our opinions in such a blatantly condescending manner - and in our own forums, no less. Hope that answers your question.
My initial response to the statement which posed the assumption that the T4 devs were all Thief fans who'd played the original games was based on the fact that (from what I've read) the resumes of the current devs seem to indicate otherwise. The original team of T4 devs were indeed real fans of Thief, and it's been reported that some of the work they did on T4 was retained, while the bulk of it was either revamped or thrown out by newer T4 devs - and as was reported, the original T4 devs were creating a game that held true to the core elements of the original Thief games. In that light, the use by the newer T4 devs of some of the original T4 devs' references to the original Thief games wouldn't be such far-fetched speculation afterall. Using those references wouldn't be an accurate indicator that the newer T4 dev team have all played the original Thief games, let alone that they're real fans of said games.
Also: in reference to the discussion regarding stealth vs. action ('
action challenge' .... in the original Thief games? Are you serious?) - the original games were based on stealth with 'action' being more or less the choice of the player; the most 'action' I ever experienced was running away from zombies, hammerhaunts, and the guards. The swordfighting was usually an elective by the player as well; something a lot of us avoided since Garrett is a THIEF not a swashbuckler and he basically sucked at swordplay anyhow. EM has already admitted that they're making a stealth-based action game (where is that link when I need it?). To make matters worse, the parkour sequences and timed speed runs are not made optional. So now NuGarrett is into parkour? Go figure. I guess if you're gonna be an emo-ninja-assassin-type thief you've gotta know parkour. Sign of the times, I guess. At least EM has the decency to admit they're catering to a 'broader' audience with NuThief. Still, I don't recall the real Garrett doing any fancy moves while mantling a ledge or balancing on a beam several stories above the streets below. Beams from which you could fall and break your neck btw, which imo just added to the challenge. Yeah, you can keep your parkour moves; I'll just stick to the shadows.
Flavia on 14/7/2013 at 13:34
Primary - no. Neither in old Thief nor in new one. But stating that there's no action at all in old Thief - as opposed to new one - it's just bullshit. Worst thing is that you're not even bullshitting me, you're apparently doing it to yourself since I feel you sincerely believe what you write. It would be laughable... if it wasn't so sad.
Vae on 14/7/2013 at 13:35
Flavia, you're so desperate that it's laughable...You had your chance, and you have chosen unwisely.
One of my Valkeries has returned.
The question is, how many ways do I love my Dia?
By the way, I have the answer...and it is in more ways than one.
Dia on 14/7/2013 at 13:46
<3 back atcha.
I suppose if you were to blast through the original Thief games in the 'ironman' mode, pretty much balls-out with total disregard to stealth and in favor of slashing and dashing your way through each mission in each game then that could be broadly interpreted by some as 'action challenge'. Albeit a challenge of your own devise. Which, somehow, is not what I think LGS, etc., had in mind when creating the original games, since they were created as stealth-based games.
P.S. I still say those hobnailed boots slowed Garrett down during his flights from the guards (and (*shudders*) zombies. ;)
'Action challenge' in TDP, TMA, & TDS. Now I've heard it all.
:rolleyes:
Esme on 14/7/2013 at 13:53
Quote Posted by Flavia
...I can really see no other reason why would anyone get so upset with a frigging VIDEO GAME...
Because they wouldn't have a "frigging video game" to make and profit from if we hadn't kept it alive for the last FIFTEEN YEARS since the first thief was released in 1998.
That's basically why we're upset, fifteen years is over half a lifetime for some gamers and a long time to invest in one game, and to see some one come along with a handful of promises systematically throw away everything that in our fifteen year opinion made the game great and kept us coming back for fifteen years, sorry to keep harping on about fifteen years but it is a significant number, to see them throw all that away and further to dismiss the constructive suggestions that were made four years ago when they asked us for them and dismiss any criticism we make now out of hand as us just not understanding the product is frankly a f****** insult.
We are here because we know Thief inside and out and love it, they're here because they decided there is enough of a market for them to make a profit from it with some half arsed, almost but not quite effort.
That clear up why we're upset ?
Flavia on 14/7/2013 at 13:56
Quote Posted by Dia
The swordfighting was usually an elective by the player as well; something a lot of us avoided since Garrett is a THIEF not a swashbuckler and he basically sucked at swordplay anyhow.
Yes, but it was still a player's choice to avoid combat. And why do you think Garrett sucked at swordfight anyway? He had three different attacks, could block almost every blow and backstab unsuspecting enemies. Not bad for a game that's not even centred around combat.
Quote Posted by Dia
To make matters worse, the parkour sequences and timed speed runs are not made optional.
They're said to be a small portion of the game. But the fact that the Thief would be better without them is indisputable.
Quote Posted by Dia
Still, I don't recall the real Garrett doing any fancy moves while mantling a ledge or balancing on a beam several stories above the streets below.
And I remember him jumping across lava pits, walking a tightrope and climbing up rope arrows. It was simplier and far less spectacular, but it was basically the same.
As for the beams... I really hope devs will reconsider :sweat:
Quote Posted by Dia
is not what I think LGS, etc., had in mind when creating the original games, since they were created as stealth-based games.
LGS programmed objectives such as "kill all haunts" and "kill all bugbeasts". What could they have in mind when doing so? :rolleyes:
Quote Posted by Esme
That's basically why we're upset, fifteen years is over half a lifetime for some gamers and a long time to invest in one game
If in over half of a lifetime you haven't encountered any problem more sereve than a video game... then I envy you. Really. Could you tell me how did you do that? Because right now I would really trade some of my problems for a hysteria over a video game.
Dia on 14/7/2013 at 14:32
You don't know Esme, you don't know me. Who the hell do you think you are to sit there in judgment and make derogatory remarks about perfect strangers? Do you even have a clue as to what's going on in the lives of others here at TTLG? I'd say not. You're sounding more and more like an EM troll. Video games are an outlet for some; some of us take these games more seriously than others, especially those who've invested upwards of a decade in these games and their respective FMs. If you're such an avid Thief fan, why has it taken you so long to join the TTLG Thief forums? Could it be because some of your EM buddies recently suggested you do so in order to assist with their trolling of the rest of us Taffers? That's pretty much what it sounds like, imo.
Back to the shadows with you. I, for one, have had enough of your trolling.
Esme: give it up. He's either being deliberately obtuse (an irritating trait of another EM PR person now a former TTLG member) or he's deliberately trolling to get the most negative responses in order to make himself appear superior. Sad that someone has to resort to such tactics to bolster their ego.
