Vae on 14/10/2013 at 05:46
Quote Posted by Brethren
I think we might need to put the optimism on hold for a moment. Sure, there's no XP system, but I was assuming that also meant ditching the Upgrade system, because how would you upgrade Garrett without XP points to spend?
The experience points, were to be used for upgrading personal super-abilities, whilst all the equipment upgrades are accomplished with gold.
Now that EM has come to their senses regarding the incompatibility of an XP system, we are left with the static, non-upgradable Focus and Swoop superpowers...with all the equipment upgrades still left intact.
Understand that a balanced XP system is impossible to implement in a THIEF game...and once they realized their misguided futility, they simply had to let it go.
Esme on 14/10/2013 at 07:09
Quote Posted by King No One
Yeah, better quality/more specialized equipment, directly related to the amount of operational funds you are able to acquire in game; sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
Sounds good to me too, XP upgrading was a concern, I still have several other concerns but this is a move I'm liking.
Quote Posted by King No One
Honestly the lengths the hate brigade go to when another of their legitimate concerns goes away. At this rate they'll hate on the game for not using DromEd.
Yeah! Damn EM for fixing an issue and taking away a pet peeve, I had this whole rant about the ridiculousness of experience gained by shooting people in the head allowing you to improve your lockpicking skills too, all that effort wasted, damn them, that's seconds of my life gone for nothing, damn them to heck :cheeky:
thiefinthedark on 14/10/2013 at 07:19
The game was designed and balanced around an XP system, and they were still talking up and showing off that XP system as late as last week. The game is being released in February which means it is going gold for publishing in early December at the absolute latest.
If they actually stripped the XP system out that leaves them very little time to rebalance and bug test the entire game for such a major change, on top of everything else that they are trying to complete. Either they are flat out lying, or what they are shipping is going to be hilariously broken. This is not cynicism, this is the reality of game development.
demagogue on 14/10/2013 at 07:36
Buying skills with money is an old RPG mechanic usually done by paying for training from some master. It's at least a plausable in-world mechanic.
King No One on 14/10/2013 at 08:13
Quote Posted by Brethren
And I really don't like the part about Garrett being a "connoisseur" of fine things, and dressing up his apartment with shiny stuff and bling bling. That's very anti-Garrett, at least to date.
People are still talking about this? :erm: ...Ok Here goes
Barring (rare) cases of theft to order there will be items taken during the course of a robbery that are too easily recognisable for any fence to risk handling (remember all those special loot items in TG & TMA that didn't add to your overall loot count?). Such articles are retained by the robbers as insurance while their actual payday comes from the sundry smaller items gleaned from the heist. Should the thieves be captured they barter the location or safe return of such items in exchange for clemency from the authorities and even money from the original owners.
What started out as a practical concern became a way of keeping score. What else does Garrett have to show for his 'Master Thief' title? He sure as hell isn't living the high life or enjoying the respect of his peers. He can't sell the items, it would be a waste to throw them away, why shouldn't a master therefore have a trophy cabinet?
Now I could go on all day about how it is ridiculous for people to identify things as 'anti-Garrett.' Every taffer has their own view of Garrett and threads devoted to the debate have shown how widely these can differ (players putting a lot of themselves into a character they have a great deal of in-game agency with). It's like a Mass Effect fan declaring something 'anti-Shephard' but then again this is just my view of Garrett, informed by real world criminality, no more valid than your view but equally no less.
Renault on 14/10/2013 at 08:52
Quote Posted by demagogue
Buying skills with money is an old RPG mechanic usually done by paying for training from some master. It's at least a plausable in-world mechanic.
That's the primary point in all this - Garrett shouldn't need training from a "master" - he is supposed to BE the master. He shouldn't need to gain XP or improve his skills or climb some technical tree. You aren't some nameless avatar that is climbing the ranks. And this isn't an RPG - or shouldn't be, at least. You're saying all this is plausible for that type of game, but this isn't THAT type of game.
Isn't anyone else getting this? Sorry if you guys think I'm on the "hate brigade" but I don't see how you can praise EM for getting rid of one ridiculous system and leaving the other one in. They made the decision to eliminate the XP system - why did they do that? Because they realized it wasn't thieflike? If so, why are they keeping the upgrade system, which is equally un-thieflike? Probably because it's way too much work at this point.
Vae on 14/10/2013 at 09:02
Quote Posted by Brethren
Isn't anyone else getting this? Sorry if you guys think I'm on the "hate brigade" but I don't see how you can praise EM for getting rid of one ridiculous system and leaving the other one in. They made the decision to eliminate the XP system - why did they do that? Because they realized it wasn't thieflike? If so, why are they keeping the upgrade system, which is equally un-thieflike? Probably because it's way too much work at this point.
There isn't any hate, only awareness...and as I already stated, they couldn't properly balance the XP system for THIEF game, as it is impossible to do when including XP for killing...and they would never remove just the XP for killing because that would discourage the action-play for their target market...So you see, they were simply in a no-win quandary, and had to let it go.
Quote Posted by King No One
Now I could go on all day about how it is ridiculous for people to identify things as 'anti-Garrett.'
I find it amusing that there are some who have been hoodwinked into believing the protagonist for NuThief is the same Garrett from the classic THIEF games...
He is not.
NuGarrett is a collector and kleptomaniac, with a noticeably lower IQ score...a corset-wearing, chatty-Kathy, who likes to play with makeup...With a different eye, history, time, and universe, he uses his non-Garrett superpowers to Swoop (multi-directional levi-jet) and Focus (omni-vision)...to clearly reveal himself to be the impostor that he is.
demagogue on 14/10/2013 at 09:05
Quote Posted by Brethren
You're saying all this is plausible for that type of game, but this isn't THAT type of game.
Well my point was more like, in relative terms buying skills with gold is more plausable than with xp for an immersive sim (which it is) because it's still an in-world mechanic. If they're already commited to upgrades as it seems they are, better this way. Doesn't mean I'm ecstatic there are upgrades at all.
Incidentally, my unease with the conniseur comment was connecting it with his ballet inspired movement. It's pushing into stylizing him too much, as a sight to behold more than a figure to command.
SubJeff on 14/10/2013 at 09:19
Wait. Are people saying Garrett isn't capable of learning, of improving?
I don't think there is or has been a master anything in RL who didn't constantly try to improve and learn.
Just because you're the best in the world at something doesn't mean you can't get even better.
Fwiw - I didn't mind xp. I minded xp for head shots, for non stealth gameplay.
LoucMachine on 14/10/2013 at 10:27
Yes Garrett ( the master thief) should be able to improve.
The issue here is ''How'' ?
what we want is Garrett improving because we get better ourselves with the game, and as we get more skills to control Garrett, he gets better.
We dont want to improve Garrett by ''inputting'' numbers like :
Aim Speed 1
Damage Increase 1
Damage Reduction 1
Improved Melee 1
Lockpick Sweet Spot 1
